first flight/ride in icing!!

[minitour]

...When an owner purchases a "new" airplane from the factory they usually provide that owner with training for their new aircraft. Follow on owners miss out on that one. If someone buys a used a/c with K-ice capability, I'm sure their insurance company would be glad to list additional training facilities. Maybe even give you lower rates for attending.

See...I get to learn something new every day!

Thanks!!

-mini

 

[rajflyboy]

If you fly in piston airplanes in the winter for a living... you are gonna have to deal with ice. Its part of the job. You have to learn when you can and can't go and also how to deal with Ice when you get some you were not expecting. The FAA even teaches this stuff.

If your getting paid to fly airplanes you should know how to deal with ice. Otherwise you should quit your job because you are not qualified enough to have the responsibility of carrying passengers.

Saying that someone is a cowboy because they picked up some ice in a C172 is not fair. We learn new things in aviation each day. Each of us has to go through a learning process during our careers. We will have the first time this happened or that happened.... and we will remember those experiences for the next time we get into similar situations. Thats why people don't get hired to fly the Boeing 777 right after they get a private pilot rating. The public deserves pilots that have had enough experience to make good descisions on a daily basis.

Each of us gains experience with each flight. The best of pilots take each experience and remember it for the next time.

 

[minitour]

Saying that someone is a cowboy because they picked up some ice in a C172 is not fair....

I'll only write for myself here.

I agree with everything else you said except this sentence.

I think that someone knowinglyand continuously flying a 172 (182/something similar) into icing conditions without having a K-ice bird, should not be flying.

Hell, I've picked up ice in a 172. It was a warm day too...it just happened to get real cold real quick at 5000 that day. Not something that was forecast, PIREPed or anything, but it definitely was there. I wish I had written down the exact numbers (temps) at 4 and 5 because it was quite a difference. Once we started the descent to 4,000 (we were holding for an approach) the ice started melting off rather quickly. In fact, by the time we got to 4,000 you couldn't even tell there was any ice on the airplane.

Lesson learned! I won't be flying anything like that into known icing conditions...especially on a continuing basis.

I tried to talk some people into staying on the ground today, but they didn't. At 6000 - 250/24 +3 - they said it wasn't freezing, so it wasn't known ice...I watched them takeoff and return 10 minutes later on the LOC approach.

I don't understand what the problem is. If your bird isn't K-ice, why do you want/need to fly it into known icing conditions? If you have to get somewhere that badly: 1. Airline or 2. Buy a certified airplane and get the training!

One of the Air Force guys (Trainer on basically any 707 variation) was talking about ice yesterday. We were discussing icing a static port over in flight. His comment, "if you ice up a static port on a 172, not only do you have bigger problems with the airplane, but with your head too".

He's right!

Anyway, that's my story. I'm not saying that you're in need of a head check if you go up on a day when it's 50-60 at the surface and you hit ice at 6-7k. I'm saying you're in need of some help if you know or suspect that cloud above (below) you has potential to throw ice on your (unequipped) plane and you go into it anyway.

Rant over.

-mini

 

[Standby 1]

If you fly in piston airplanes in the winter for a living... you are gonna have to deal with ice.

(Empasis added my me.)

Yes, if you fly for a living. People buzzing around in light singles have no business flying around in icing.

If your getting paid to fly airplanes you should know how to deal with ice. Otherwise you should quit your job because you are not qualified enough to have the responsibility of carrying passengers.

No one is talking about a compensated commercial pilot flying for a living here. This thread is about private pilots flying around in light SE a/c in KNOWN icing conditions and believing that is an okay thing to do. Where I come from, repeating the same mistakes over and over again just because you lived to tell the tale last time does indeed make one a "cowboy."

Each of us gains experience with each flight. The best of pilots take each experience and remember it for the next time.

I couldn't agree more.





...

 

[eggman76]

Don't everyone trip and fall on their face running off the soap box.

Good Grief!

Nobody with more than 500 hrs can say they haven't got iced in a small plane. So how did you get there? That's right, you flew into known icing, just like 99% of the current IFR pilots do everyday in the midwest. Sure it's a risk, but a small risk when measured properly against viable outs.

So, what is wrong with getting iced in a safe environment like explained above? Short of being an epileptic having a grand mall sezuire, I doubt you'll even raise your heart rate one beat per minute.

Avbug, I routinely climb to 10k and COMPLETELY shut off my engine and glide to a full stop just for fun once a month. Am I crazy? So be it, no different than gliders. People fear the unknown and what they know about themselves, I eliminate the unknown and deal with the "self knowledge" the best I can.

BTW, aerobatics next month, more unsafe, low altitude antics, I must be lucky!

What are the five hazardous attitudes?

Antiauthority
Impulsivity
Invulnerability
Macho
Resignation

 

[rajflyboy]

I'm not saying go out and take your C152, C172 and fly through Ice. All I am saying is learn as much as you can about icing and if you get in it by accident; know how to get out of it.

 

[Tired Soul]

Icing in a single engine piston was probably the scariest experience in my life.
Over the mountains at night in and out of IMC with a airmet for icing issued after we took off.
Should have turned back but we didn't.
We went through one (yes, only one) cloud in a Piper Warrior, we picked up ice in seconds, a mixture of rime and clear.
Student was flying, I was looking at my wing, we spent maybe 30 sec in cloud, you could watch it grow. From the leading edge back we had a 20 inch long layer of mixed. We asked for and got "deviations as necessary".
A buddy in a C172 (who took a different route) was nearly killed that night, they had the heater on full blast and it took 2 of them to physically fly the plane, both needed full yoke forward to keep it from stalling. The real spooky thing was they were on the same center freq. and we could here them getting nervous and later almost panicking. Controller had this concerned tone in his voice, somthing like please don't let me lose one tonight.
After we landed (1.5 hrs later) we still had slush at the bottom of the wing.
On the way back during the day we mostly stayed out of cloud but still managed to get the trim frozen with clear ice.
Agree that at some point in your career/learning curve you need to learn how to handle those conditions, but next time I go into any conditions conducive to ice, it will be in a plane certified to to it.
Nothing and nothing else.
That's all for my Sunday sermon...

 

[apcooper]

Tired Soul,


That is plain old dangerous!! Mountains and ice are a BAD combination! Ice always tends to be worst in mountanious terrain espically on the upwind side of all ridges. Glad no one was hurt or worse! I'd never even think about pulling something off like that in with 3 strikes against you, first a wimpy 172, second the darkness and third the mountains. If in a G4 I wouldn't hesitate to fly in that situation since it easily could climb on top with lots of power as well as sophisticated ice protection equipment. That is every bit as dangerous as flying drunk IHMO!!!! Glad you were able to learn from this as well.

 

[avbug]

Don't make the mistake of thinking that because you have the performance and ice capabilities of a larger, more powerful airplane, that it's okay to go into the ice. Any ice system is designed to get you out of ice, not in. Even in the highest performance aircraft, icing conditions exist which far exceed the capability of any anti icing or deicing system that mankind has devised, or can build, not to mention the capability of any aircraft one may care to mention.

I've heard posters here comment on how this airplane or that carries ice like a pickup truck. Garbage. No airplane carries ice well. Don't get caught into that mentality. I was nearly dumbfounded at the hysterically idiotic ramblings of tdturbo regarding ice in light airplanes; I really thought he had more sense than that. It's possibly excusable in an inexperienced pilot such as himself, but weather is no rspecter of persons, and ice does not forgive.

Ice is dangerous on runways, on wings, in fuel, everywhere. The only place for ice in the airplane is in the galley or in your soda glass. In light airplanes, especially, the only thing icing experience should provide you is a firm commitment to stay clear. Ice has brought down more than a few large, highly powered aircraft.

You might be willing to fly ice in a G4. You might look before you do that at the building evidence regarding the recent loss of the Challenger in Montrose before you plan on tackling ice merely because you have the power and the alleged performance to do so. Not a good idea. I'm very, very disappointed at the number of posters who seem to see ice as a training tool or something that is to be carried well by a particular type design. I'm gratified to see the much greater number of posters to are wise enough to properly advise steering clear of ice in any amount.

Leave ice in drinks and to the olympics. Inside the airplane, fine. Outside the airplane, very bad.

 

[rajflyboy]

avbug

very true statement

 

[TDTURBO]

Today was a fun day in Chicago, I specifically requested a hold in IMC after getting a Sigmet for ice. I wanted to do this to see how long my mighty 182rg could fly before feeling a stall buffet from the tail. I can't wait for the FZ rain tomorrow.


If I only new where minitour lived I could hold over his house.