first flight/ride in icing!!

[TDTURBO]

I Fly in and through ice routinely in the winter with a 182rg. I am usually very light and can shoot up through it or I make sure I have warm air aloft or below, but I usually get dusted either way. If I stayed on the ground every time I read a sigmet, I would never get anywhere. I won't go through it if I don't have an out, a plan B, but I won't hesitate blasting through it if I can get in the clear. I doubt I would do it in a 172 though. Being light will buy you some time, not much, but enough if you plan ahead.


Fly at your own risk.

 

[minitour]

...Ice disrupts airflow. ice adds weight. Ice can be unpredictable...

I think that's what scares me...no...not scares...well...maybe "scares" me the most about ice...

There's an online simulator somewhere where you can see what ice does to different speeds with different configurations, etc...

However...ice doesn't just lay on the wing...it can build up all sorts of ways...

The weight issue...airflow disruption...sheesh...

Just something I don't want to encounter again in anything not equipped for it...

It's too unpredictable...you know what happens if you lose an engine...you can plan on a certain action...gear doesn't come down? You've got a checklist to go through...but man...get ice on that 172 (or similar)...russian roulette...

-mini

 

[TDTURBO]

I think that's what scares me...no...not scares...well...maybe "scares" me the most about ice...

There's an online simulator somewhere where you can see what ice does to different speeds with different configurations, etc...

However...ice doesn't just lay on the wing...it can build up all sorts of ways...

The weight issue...airflow disruption...sheesh...

Just something I don't want to encounter again in anything not equipped for it...

It's too unpredictable...you know what happens if you lose an engine...you can plan on a certain action...gear doesn't come down? You've got a checklist to go through...but man...get ice on that 172 (or similar)...russian roulette...

-mini

No biggy if you have warm air underneath you and plenty of altitude.

A good way to see what your plane can handle is find a thin icing layer up high and dive in it and watch what happens. The scarey part is listening to the chucks shedding of in the decent slamming into the horizontal stab!

 

[avbug]

Ah, a mighty 182. That makes all the difference in the world. It's still a puny underpowered machine that shouldn't be in the ice. It's single engine. It's also not your risk to take. Nor your liberty to do so.

Is your 182 approved for flight into known ice? Ever had an engine or instrument failure in a 182 in ice? I have. You don't want that. And never assume you'll get only a light dusting.

I find it very disppointing that here we have at least two proponents of engaging in stupid behavior. Ridiculous.

I partially agree with you about icing training. I think that even in a c-172 you ought to fly in heavy ice. WAIT THOUGH before you call me crazy!!! While in heavy ice the freezing level ought to be at least 5000ft. That was you can see how a poor 172 performs as a popsicle but at the same time you have a guarenteed out by simply descenting into warm air and melting it off.

Think about that statement carefully before you do the right thing and retract it. I won't wait before I call you crazy; it's illegal and very, very stupid. You'd go ice up a 172 on the belief that you have altitude to exit the cloud when you're done...that somehow makes it okay?

You've got lots of solid icing experience in type and can predict the behavior and conditions, and be sure you can shed it? Lots of pilots with far more experience in far more capable aircraft have been killed in ice. Somehow you think you've got a brilliant idea that will revoloutionize the industry now, icing up that 172 to let people know what it's like?

In a simulator perhaps...but much rather I'd see people trained to stay out of the ice completely. Putting that 172, or any aircraft not equipped nor approved for ice, into ice, is plain stupid.

If I stayed on the ground every time I read a sigmet, I would never get anywhere.

Then you need to seriously consider not going anywhere. Sigmets are issued for severe icing and severe to extreme turbulence when not associated with thunderstorms. Think hard about that. Chew on it for a while.

You'll just blow off the sigmet because in your grand experience you know better, and you're going to make the point with your single engine cessna, because it's your risk to take, right? Hopefull not while over my home. Or that of anybody else, as it's not our risk to take. Or that of anyone else in the sky, or on the ground. Sigmets are not issued for kicks, and should not be passed off lightly, regardless of weather you have a plan "b" or not.

A good way to see what your plane can handle is find a thin icing layer up high and dive in it and watch what happens. The scarey part is listening to the chucks shedding of in the decent slamming into the horizontal stab!

I really thought you had better judgement than that.

Good grief.

 

[minitour]

...The scarey part is listening to the chucks shedding of in the decent slamming into the horizontal stab!

for some reason when I read that, I immediately thought of the Cargo thread...you know...the really sh*tty one...

-mini

 

[350DRIVER]

Why chance luck.. If the plane is not approved or equipped for known ice then why attempt it?. It would be somewhat difficult getting trapped and having no way to knock the ice off.

3 5 0

 

[wxman13]

Icing Training

I agree with what several have said about the need for training of some sort about what to do when you (accidentally) find yourself in icing conditions. Yeah, it's great that we all try to drive home the "stay out of ice" mantra, but that does nothing when, for whatever reason, the forecast is wrong or conditions change and you start picking up ice. Simulators seem like the safest way to go, and I agree with whoever suggesting stressing that kind of decisionmaking on a checkride. I'll also say that my own accidental icing encounter earlier this week was a much more effective learning experience...I'm still kind of reeling from it, even though I "only" picked up about 1/8" of clear ice and got out of it in less than a minute. Just cuz I learned from it doesn't mean that everyone should go out where someone else filed a "light rime" pirep and try to pick up some ice for the experience.

Peter

 

[TDTURBO]

Why chance luck.. If the plane is not approved or equipped for known ice then why attempt it?. It would be somewhat difficult getting trapped and having no way to knock the ice off.

3 5 0

Don't everyone trip and fall on their face running off the soap box.

Good Grief!

Nobody with more than 500 hrs can say they haven't got iced in a small plane. So how did you get there? That's right, you flew into known icing, just like 99% of the current IFR pilots do everyday in the midwest. Sure it's a risk, but a small risk when measured properly against viable outs.

So, what is wrong with getting iced in a safe environment like explained above? Short of being an epileptic having a grand mall sezuire, I doubt you'll even raise your heart rate one beat per minute.

Avbug, I routinely climb to 10k and COMPLETELY shut off my engine and glide to a full stop just for fun once a month. Am I crazy? So be it, no different than gliders. People fear the unknown and what they know about themselves, I eliminate the unknown and deal with the "self knowledge" the best I can.

BTW, aerobatics next month, more unsafe, low altitude antics, I must be lucky!

 

[apcooper]

Avbug,

I am merely suggesting that pilots be better trained in how to escape ice not fly in it! We train for an engine failure insturment failures, etc so shouldn't we know what to do in ice if ACCIDENTLY encountered.


"I partially agree with you about icing training. I think that even in a c-172 you ought to fly in heavy ice. WAIT THOUGH before you call me crazy!!! While in heavy ice the freezing level ought to be at least 5000ft. That was you can see how a poor 172 performs as a popsicle but at the same time you have a guarenteed out by simply descenting into warm air and melting it off. "


In my previous post I was not all that serious about doing just that. The thought just crossed my mind. I guess it was stupid the more I think about it so I'll bi^#h slap myself. It's like when you were little and you touched the stove thinking it won't hurt. If you hadn't learned the hard way and burned yourself you'd think its not really hot. Right?? Kinda the same thing here but under controlled conditions. I'm not going to go up and try that or encourage any other pilot to. My only point was to find any way for new IFR pilots to know how ice degrades performance and is dangerous. I am NOT trying to outsmart mother nature or ignore the regs AT ALL. Let me make that very clear for not just yourself but everyone else on flightinfo. Bottom line is as I previously mentioned to use an effective simulator for ice escape stratigies.

 

[minitour]

...Bottom line is as I previously mentioned to use an effective simulator for ice escape stratigies.

I agree 100%...the only problem is (as Avbug pointed out) ice is so unpredictable.

Today you might get a dusting, tomorrow you could be dead...the simulator would have to be so complex and you'd have to spend so much time in it...

It's a tough call...ideally, we'd be trained for everything...but realistically, I don't think it would ever happen...

-mini