first flight/ride in icing!!

[TDTURBO]

Avbug,

I am merely suggesting that pilots be better trained in how to escape ice not fly in it! We train for an engine failure insturment failures, etc so shouldn't we know what to do in ice if ACCIDENTLY encountered.


"I partially agree with you about icing training. I think that even in a c-172 you ought to fly in heavy ice. WAIT THOUGH before you call me crazy!!! While in heavy ice the freezing level ought to be at least 5000ft. That was you can see how a poor 172 performs as a popsicle but at the same time you have a guarenteed out by simply descenting into warm air and melting it off. "


In my previous post I was not all that serious about doing just that. The thought just crossed my mind. I guess it was stupid the more I think about it so I'll bi^#h slap myself. It's like when you were little and you touched the stove thinking it won't hurt. If you hadn't learned the hard way and burned yourself you'd think its not really hot. Right?? Kinda the same thing here but under controlled conditions. I'm not going to go up and try that or encourage any other pilot to. My only point was to find any way for new IFR pilots to know how ice degrades performance and is dangerous. I am NOT trying to outsmart mother nature or ignore the regs AT ALL. Let me make that very clear for not just yourself but everyone else on flightinfo. Bottom line is as I previously mentioned to use an effective simulator for ice escape stratigies.

apcooper, there are several icing sites I suggest you read before playing around ice, it will bite you if you come unprepared, you need several outs. This is a good place to start.

http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/

http://aircrafticing.grc.nasa.gov/courses.html

 

[TDTURBO]

I agree 100%...the only problem is (as Avbug pointed out) ice is so unpredictable.

Today you might get a dusting, tomorrow you could be dead...the simulator would have to be so complex and you'd have to spend so much time in it...

It's a tough call...ideally, we'd be trained for everything...but realistically, I don't think it would ever happen...

-mini

Unpredictable huh? If it's upredictable than I can predict that it will be unpredictable, right? So I can plan on that, right?

How you say?

I don't care how unpredictable the ice is, if I have a thousand feet of it with warm air below, as in 2000 ft or more, than their is NO WAY I am getting in trouble unless I'm a spazz. I know from flying my plane in ice a hundred times exactly how much it takes before I need to take action quickly. I cut that margin in half and have an escape route within my grasp not longer than 30 seconds away if things get ugly.

"A mans got to know his limitations"

 

[HMR]

I know from flying my plane in ice a hundred times exactly how much it takes before I need to take action quickly.

CAUTION: the LAWN DART POTENTIAL METER is starting to peg.

 

[TDTURBO]

I know from flying my plane in ice a hundred times exactly how much it takes before I need to take action quickly.

CAUTION: the LAWN DART POTENTIAL METER is starting to peg.

Every man has to know his limitations, I am glad you know yours!

Fly Safe

 

[minitour]

I don't care how unpredictable the ice is...

Okay all you CFIs out there that had to memorize all of these...I'm gonna give this one a shot.

Invulnerable? I don't care, it can't happen to me.

How did I do? Is that even one of them? I'm so bad at these...

Seriously though, like Avbug said...please don't fly your 182 over me, my family, my friends, or anyone else I might have the chance to come into contact with in known ice.

Have we read 91.13 lately? By intentionally flying into K-ice in a plane that isn't certified for it, you're potentially causing a danger to people and property on the ground. The property I couldn't care less about...I'm sure you have insurance. It's the people that matter to me.

-mini

 

[TDTURBO]

Okay all you CFIs out there that had to memorize all of these...I'm gonna give this one a shot.

Invulnerable? I don't care, it can't happen to me.

How did I do? Is that even one of them? I'm so bad at these...

Seriously though, like Avbug said...please don't fly your 182 over me, my family, my friends, or anyone else I might have the chance to come into contact with in known ice.

Have we read 91.13 lately? By intentionally flying into K-ice in a plane that isn't certified for it, you're potentially causing a danger to people and property on the ground. The property I couldn't care less about...I'm sure you have insurance. It's the people that matter to me.

-mini

Then I guess you better move to a cave, there are lots and lots of flying gas cans traversing your house everyday and any one of them could crash right into your bath tub while you're listening to your favorite Johnny Cash song.

Life is too short to worry about that sh*t.

 

[minitour]

Then I guess you better move to a cave, there are lots and lots of flying gas cans traversing your house everyday and any one of them could crash right into your bath tub while you're listening to your favorite Johnny Cash song.

Life is too short to worry about that sh*t.

JUST FOR THE RECORD!!!...


It's Backstreet Boys

 

[Standby 1]

Okay all you CFIs out there that had to memorize all of these...I'm gonna give this one a shot.

Invulnerable? I don't care, it can't happen to me.

How did I do? Is that even one of them? I'm so bad at these...

Seriously though, like Avbug said...please don't fly your 182 over me, my family, my friends, or anyone else I might have the chance to come into contact with in known ice.

Have we read 91.13 lately? By intentionally flying into K-ice in a plane that isn't certified for it, you're potentially causing a danger to people and property on the ground. The property I couldn't care less about...I'm sure you have insurance. It's the people that matter to me.

-mini

I couldn't agree more. Most pilots inadvertantly get themselves in bad situations at some point during their training (or multiple bad situations, in my case). Most of us get lucky and live to tell the tale. One type of pilot learns how to NEVER get themselves in that situation again and realize that the outcome might not be so life-affirming next time.

The other type of pilot is emboldened by the experience and does not try to avoid the situation next, being convinced that he/she is skilled enough to ensure the same outcome.

When I was CFI'ing, the difference between a good student and a scary one was all about attitude. I could teach the mechanical skills of flying to anyone...but it's much more difficult to teach common sense and a healthy respect for Mother Nature.





...

 

[Sctt@NJA]

I have often thought that the best pilot is one who gets scared about the right things. Someone who is afraid of too much, or of the wrong things might be ok as a private pilot but wont cut it profesionally. Someone who isn't afraid when they should be is just a plain hazard.

We just got a memo about icing from the company... It stresses how little ice can create big problems. Including amounts that can't even be seen from the cockpit. I can assure you that all of us at Netjets flying airplanes with a good deal more capability than a c-172 have more respect for ice than some of the posters on this thread.

We put on the anti-ice anytime we are in visible moisture (which includes clouds and sometimes just haze) with an outside temperature of less than +10.
Which puts +6 right in the zone where you need to start worrying (if you haven't already) in a non-ice approved airplane.

 

[minitour]

I have often thought that the best pilot is one who gets scared about the right things. Someone who is afraid of too much, or of the wrong things might be ok as a private pilot but wont cut it profesionally. Someone who isn't afraid when they should be is just a plain hazard...

Well...whether it's bad or not, ice scares me...maybe not scares me...someone earlier said "respect" for ice...that's what I have... In a non K-ice plane of course. Give me a King Air (no really...give me a King Air?) or a Citation (anyone got an extra one?) and I'm still being careful, but I know the plane is more capable than the 172 type airplanes.

Anytime the surface temp is 45*F or less, I'm being very cautious. I don't really care what the forecast freezing level is (I do take a look at it, but I don't say, "oh hey, I can fly up to ___ feet"). If it's less than 40*F, I'm cancelling. Too much risk there for my likes...especially if it's LIFR. I don't mind the clouds down to 200' DHs, but I do mind not being out of visible moisture in cold temps down to 200' DHs.

If you're flying stuff capable and at +10 you're putting on the anti-ice, that should say something to the rest of us, no?

Anyway...thats just MHO. I'm sure people fly 182s and 172s and the like every day into K-ice and live to tell about how good they were. I just hope when they become a statistic, it isn't over someone or with someone on board.

-mini