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BigPappa you have GOT to be kidding right?

Curr Position: Ruler of the Universe, King of all, but you can call me captain!

Come on guy.

The guy who owns the airplane I fly takes a pee on the ramp all the time. I am so glad I don't have to deal with all the crap you airline pilots do.


Again for the second time that part of my profile is meant as a joke! Obviously way past you!

Sure, sure. That guy (your boss) also keeps you under his thumb and can squeeze you like a bug any day.

What amazes me most is how some corporate pilots seem to act like the regional flying is below them, yet those same pilots could never get hired by a 121 airline.

GET A GRIP!
 
BigPappa you have GOT to be kidding right?

Curr Position: Ruler of the Universe, King of all, but you can call me captain!

Come on guy.

The guy who owns the airplane I fly takes a pee on the ramp all the time. I am so glad I don't have to deal with all the crap you airline pilots do.

The owner takes a pee; well it's his plane but if you did, most bosses may fire you. What do you think Netsjet or other corporate would do to you if you peed on the ramp in front of a client?
 
Again for the second time that part of my profile is meant as a joke! Obviously way past you!

Sure, sure. That guy (your boss) also keeps you under his thumb and can squeeze you like a bug any day.

What amazes me most is how some corporate pilots seem to act like the regional flying is below them, yet those same pilots could never get hired by a 121 airline.

I worked for Air Wisconsin for 22 months before getting my current corporate position, as well as working for a year in a major airline training department before I started flying at ARW. I think I've got a pretty firm grasp on the differences between 91 and 121 flying.

I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that flying my 0.62M near-jet is vastly superior to my experiences at one of the better regional airlines, and I had a good experience there. Even upgrading within my domicile (where I lived) wouldn't have come close to matching the compensation and quality of life combination I currently have.

While I've no doubt that many are content with the regional airline lifestyle and would HATE the thought of loading bags, cleaning a cabin, or filling the ice bin...I can say my position has exceeded ALL expectations. Others' mileage may vary.

Your corporate job must have really sucked if you felt you were under your bosses' thumb all the time.
 
I worked for Air Wisconsin for 22 months before getting my current corporate position, as well as working for a year in a major airline training department before I started flying at ARW. I think I've got a pretty firm grasp on the differences between 91 and 121 flying.

I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that flying my 0.62M near-jet is vastly superior to my experiences at one of the better regional airlines, and I had a good experience there. Even upgrading within my domicile (where I lived) wouldn't have come close to matching the compensation and quality of life combination I currently have.

While I've no doubt that many are content with the regional airline lifestyle and would HATE the thought of loading bags, cleaning a cabin, or filling the ice bin...I can say my position has exceeded ALL expectations. Others' mileage may vary.

Your corporate job must have really sucked if you felt you were under your bosses' thumb all the time.

Well, everyone has different expectations and different perspectives, based on individual experiences. Congratulations on your new job and it's great that you like it! Every corporate job is different, depending on who you work for and the required "duty" time, which includes all the unknown waiting time and uncertainity. Like everything else, there are always exceptions, and quite possibly your job is one on those.

From my perspective, corporate jobs generally suck as compared to scheduled flying with known days off. Unless you fly for a Fortune 500 company that is fairly stable, your job is at risk and your schedule is usually not a schedule. There are many corporate jobs where you are a "slave" to the whims and demands of the owner. At most, there is never a guaranteed day off. In addition, being in a sub-serviant position, you get to see the ugly side of arrogant, egotistic people who get through life by stepping on other people--you are no exception. That was my experience in the 4-5 corporate jobs that I have had. No one likes to be the whipping post--and generally, that is one of the roles you assume.

Good luck in your job!
 
172Driver,
Yes, corporate is a step-down in most cases when compared to being a Captain at SkyWest.

HAHAHAH!!! oh man....oh... ouch... my sides hurt from laughing so bad.

Compare your paycheck to a corporate, and then a fractional gig, and see if you still think it is a step down. The regionals are the lowest of the low in this biz. maybe slightly above grand canyon tours, but bellow rubber dog sh!t
 
Well, everyone has different expectations and different perspectives, based on individual experiences. Congratulations on your new job and it's great that you like it! Every corporate job is different, depending on who you work for and the required "duty" time, which includes all the unknown waiting time and uncertainity. Like everything else, there are always exceptions, and quite possibly your job is one on those.

From my perspective, corporate jobs generally suck as compared to scheduled flying with known days off. Unless you fly for a Fortune 500 company that is fairly stable, your job is at risk and your schedule is usually not a schedule. There are many corporate jobs where you are a "slave" to the whims and demands of the owner. At most, there is never a guaranteed day off. In addition, being in a sub-serviant position, you get to see the ugly side of arrogant, egotistic people who get through life by stepping on other people--you are no exception. That was my experience in the 4-5 corporate jobs that I have had. No one likes to be the whipping post--and generally, that is one of the roles you assume.

Good luck in your job!

Thanks!

I guess maybe I am lucky...my owner compensates all his employees well, has LOTS of morale-boosting events, and is a private pilot who is 100% sold on the value (vs. the cost) of owning a jet to grow his business. He also pushes his employees very hard, but they are well rewarded and always recognized for their efforts. This includes the pilots.

As you say, there is plenty of downtime and waiting in the 91/135 world - its part of the job. Thankfully FBO lounges are often very well appointed and comfortable, with internet access to argue semantics on Flightinfo (like I am right now :p)

I don't fly for a F500 company, and I don't have "hard days off" per se...I have days the airplane is scheduled to fly (trips scheduled weeks in advance) and am not required to do ANYTHING on the days its not...sort of making them hard days off. We don't do "pop-up" trips but in the instance that we do there is no policy about doing it; if I'm not scheduled to fly I don't have to stay at home beside my phone waiting for it to ring.

The nature of the position means I generally spend a few hours each week in the office doing paperwork...a fair trade IMO. Its also nice that the airplane flies 90% for business only, meaning VERY few weekend days working.

I dictate to the owner what our maximum duty times will be (14 hours with min 10 hours rest), set the dress code (slacks and company polo), chose our hotels and restaurants, and the only person I answer to is the HMFIC....I guess in that way, its good to be king. :D

It seems to me that the folks at the regoinals who talk about how bad corporate flying is from their past experiences had really, REALLY crappy jobs where they weren't paid their worth and/or were rode hard and put away wet. There are plenty of jobs like that out there, but there's also a reason many people become career King Air, Citation, or Lear pilots and it doesn't have anything to do with the inability to succeed in a 121 interview.

It sucks that some Chief Pilots are such weak-dick leaders that they can't stand up to the owner for common-sense policies. Most folks with the coin to have a personal or business aircraft wouldn't dare get into a taxi or limo operated by a drunk driver...I can't fathom the cheap morons who would get in an airplane with fatigued or unqualified pilots.

I think we both can agree that in no instance is one segment of the industry (corporate) is automatically and always better than the other (regionals), and that "better" is 100% subjective to who is answering the question.

Some folks like the airline lifestyle, and that's fine! Besides, who is any "corporate" pilot to bag on somebody for liking their job and situation? Something about humility, stones and glass houses, etc...
 
GB in SkyWest should be fired and he should be taken off of training department like he was before. He cost anothr good pilot a job and even a career
 
I wonder what T.W. says about being an "at will" employee now. Not trying to be a jerk here but he seemed pretty vocal during the union drive. It pisses me off that certain people have been allowed to remain in the training department at SkyWest. Glad I don't have to deal with that anymore.
 
Gotta agree with a lot of the stuff that's been posted so far. SkyWest is a good regional... I'd even go so far to say that it is a great regional. With that said, however, it is still just a regional, and the term "great" is relative. You can make some decent money as a SkyWest jet captain... the problem is that you have to work your butt off to get it, and it doesn't come until like year 17 of service. Some corporate jobs are a step down from that. But I'd venture to say that all the good corporate jobs are a step up. Anyone who tells you otherwise just hasn't researched it at all.

Someone said that some people are content with the airline lifestyle. In the context of regional airlines, methinks the term "content" is synonymous with "lazy" and/or "risk-averse."

-Goose
 
Anybody who gets fired from skywest deserved it. plain and simple

Dumbass.

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_7154311

Judge backs pilot who grounded self
By Paul Beebe
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 10/11/2007 11:52 PM MDT

An administrative law judge has ordered SkyWest Airlines to rehire a veteran pilot who said the company fired him illegally for declaring himself and his crew unfit to fly after a perilous trip to Jackson, Wyo., where a landing was aborted because of bad weather.

The airline said it fired Don Douglas five months after the 2005 incident because he wrote profane graffiti on company property on two occasions and then refused to take responsibility after being confronted. SkyWest said Douglas's declaration that he and two crew members were unable to fly had nothing to do with his termination.

"I'm ecstatic. I hope I've done something about safety. It was always about safety," said Douglas, who lives in Sandy.

A company spokesman said the St. George-based regional airline hasn't decided whether to appeal the judge's ruling.

"SkyWest maintains fair disciplinary procedures with our employees, and in the case of Mr. Douglas, a thorough investigation process was utilized before he was terminated," spokeswoman Marissa Snow said in an email.

"After two review boards in which his peers reviewed and upheld the decision, an investigation was conducted by the Department of Labor, which also found no merit in the case," Snow said Thursday.

The Oct. 3 ruling by Judge Russell Pulver overturns an earlier ruling by the department's Occupational Safety and Health Administration. OSHA ruled last year that the evidence supported SkyWest.

Douglas, a 16-year SkyWest veteran, reported to work at Salt Lake City International Airport on March 21, 2005, three days after a vasectomy. Cleared to work by his surgeon, Douglas was scheduled to fly a 30-seat Embraer Brasilia turboprop airplane from Salt Lake to Jackson that night and return the next morning. Douglas felt fit to fly, even though he and his crew were warned that they would be flying through rain and snow.

Before departing, the crew's first officer and flight attendant told Douglas they were not feeling well. Troy Brewer, the first officer, said he was tired from a lack of sleep. Flight attendant Brandee Black said her arthritis was bothering her.

The flight was difficult, according to the judge, who wrote that Douglas and Brewer "were under more stress than usual because they had to fly on instruments and the conditions were icy."

Because wind and runway conditions were unsafe in Jackson, aircraft controllers put the flight into a holding pattern that lasted about an hour, then ordered Douglas to fly back to Salt Lake through the poor weather.

After returning, Douglas learned that he and the crew were scheduled to attempt another flight to Jackson - about five hours later - at 4:40 a.m. the next day. According to the judge's 49-page ruling, Douglas found himself unexpectedly feeling too poorly to fly so soon because he was physically and mentally drained from the experience. Douglas also said a mild discomfort from his surgery had become intense during the flight.

After considering how he felt and determining that Brewer and Black were too fatigued to fly again so soon, Douglas told a SkyWest supervisor that he and his crew would not be able to safely fly to Jackson.

"As a pilot, [Douglas] was trained to declare himself unfit should he become unfit during the course of a shift. He believed that it would be a violation of federal air safety regulations if he were to fly unfit, or were to allow a crew member to fly that he had determined was unfit," Pulver wrote.

"He also believed that he as the captain had the final authority to make fitness determinations concerning himself and his crew," the judge wrote.

SkyWest disagreed. After an investigation, Tony Fizer, the airline's western region chief pilot, suspended Douglas for a week without pay and put a letter of reprimand in Douglas's personnel file. Fizer said Douglas was already unfit to fly when he arrived for work. Douglas also did not have the authority to keep his crew from flying, Fizer said.

Two months later, a review board reversed the suspension and downgraded the severity of the letter. Fizer was told to inform Douglas that in the future he should consult with a flight surgeon before declaring himself unfit and each crew member must tell the company if they believe they are unable to work. Only if a crew member was incapacitated could Douglas declare that person unfit for duty.

In July 2005, the words "f--- Fizer" appeared on a cork board in a SkyWest crew lounge. After the board was removed, "You can still f--- Fizer" was written on the wall.

Two handwriting experts hired by Fizer later concluded that Douglas had written the epithets. Douglas was told he could keep his job if he accepted responsibility. He refused and was fired on Aug. 31, 2005.

"I couldn't admit to something I didn't do," Douglas said.

Lawyers for Douglas argued that the graffiti was written in generic block letters, not in cursive script. A handwriting expert hired by Douglas said the writing wasn't his. And the SkyWest experts never looked at handwriting samples from other people before determining Douglas was responsible.

At a hearing in September, Fizer claimed the epithets didn't bother him, though he said they created a sexually hostile work environment and required an extensive investigation because senior SkyWest managers were alarmed.

In Pulver's ruling, the judge said Fizer showed "retaliatory animus" at one meeting with Douglas. The judge also said Fizer lacked credibility because of "baseless accusations" and other steps he took toward Douglas.

"I . . . find Fizer's antagonistic statements concerning the protected activity [when Douglas declared himself and his crew unfit to fly] provide circumstantial evidence of a retaliatory motive for terminating [Douglas's] employment," the judge wrote.

Pulver said Douglas is entitled to back pay and attorney fees.
 

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