Final Judgement DOJ - AA / US

[Jeff Helgeson]

US guys, what do you think it will mean to CLT as a hub now?

The agreement requires all existing hubs to remain hubs for 3 years.

 

[St. Nic]

A Westie friend there said final documents to be filed on the 16th of this month, and then they wait....


Bye Bye---General Lee

"Wide range of reasonableness"

When does Marty get fired?

 

[TWA Dude]

What's the latest on the Nic and using it during the SLI process? I know the judge was supposed to rule on ripeness of the case but I haven't followed it lately.

She ruled on ripeness when she ordered the case to trial.
After the 18th all the post trial motions will be complete and she'll rule at her leisure. She's aware of the impending POR so we'll probably hear sooner than her usual M.O. of three months.

 

[TWA Dude]

When does Marty get fired?

If justice is served his services will no longer be required after Judge Silver's ruling -- unless y'all decide to waste more of our dues money and appeal.

 

[Bringupthebird]

"Wide range of reasonableness"

Had the brain trust that ginned up USAPA presented anything "reasonable" when they were suckling at the teat of ALPA, perhaps they could enjoy a real seat at the table during the most important merger of their sorry careers.

Slime-ansky has not served you well, nor has Roll 'em Wilder.

 

[Guppiedriver]

It will be if APA wants to avoid dealing with the Charlotte Kinder Kare. They can send out cards and force an election which will put USAPA out for good before they can do any more damage.

Why would they want to risk being put under an injunction by USAPA's trademarked antics if they don't have to?

From the APA....

"Within four months of the merger's Effective Date, APA will petition the National Mediation Board (NMB) for a single-carrier declaration. JCBA negotiations are to begin as soon as practicable after the Effective Date of the merger and may be completed anytime between then and 30 days after the NMB issues its single-carrier declaration. Our attorneys have indicated they expect the NMB to rule on the single-carrier petition within a few months of its filing. Once that declaration is made, the NMB will certify the collective bargaining agent for the pilots of the new American Airlines. Absent a significant challenge, the NMB will likely designate APA, as the larger of the two unions, to serve in that capacity. (Under the NMB?s recently amended Merger Procedures, a union must have a showing of interest from 50% of the combined pilot group in order to trigger a representation dispute. APA represents about 66% of the projected 15,000 pilots, so a challenge is unlikely."

 

[FlyUnder]

It will go away after the representation vote. Far away!:beer:

USAPA has deluded itself into thinking it is relevant or will play any part in the SLI.

You are wrong.

 

[ackattacker]

It will go away after the representation vote. Far away!:beer:

USAPA has deluded itself into thinking it is relevant or will play any part in the SLI.

Federal law absolutely requires that USAPA plays a part in the SLI integration. APA can become the bargaining agent for other purposes, but USAPA will stick around until the SLI is complete. This much is 100% clear.

You seem so giddy to see the end of USAPA that you appear to want APA to represent you in a seniority list integration with ... APA. Ask the TWA guys how that worked out for them.

 

[vetrider]

At list usapa is impotent. Couldn't even steam roll a bunch of desert dirt bags(I are one) in 6 years.

 

[Tweaker]

ackattacker

And THAT is why he is on the IGNINT list. When you quote him, you destroy that function, and a puppy is castrated somewhere.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Federal law absolutely requires that USAPA plays a part in the SLI integration. APA can become the bargaining agent for other purposes, but USAPA will stick around until the SLI is complete. This much is 100% clear.

Absolutely untrue. Please cite the Federal Law. APA can solicit cards anytime it wants. If USAPA had been formed prior to arbitration, it could have done as it pleased without any DFR threat. APA should toss USAPA out of the room. They have a proven record of destroying everything they touch and representing no one effectively.

M-B rules only apply when there are 2 different unions. If APA represents everyone, they can devise a SLI under their rules.

Giddy? Son, when you are talking about the eradication of the worst vermin to ever attack the piloting profession - USAPA, giddy doesn't begin to describe it.

 

[Bringupthebird]

You seem so giddy to see the end of USAPA that you appear to want APA to represent you in a seniority list integration with ... APA. Ask the TWA guys how that worked out for them.

I'll ask you. How do you like spending tens of millions to do absolutely nothing? I suppose the remorse of realizing you could have had a substantial pay raise AND your upgrade by just abiding by your agreement under the Nic does make you feel pretty stupid.

APA has a pretty good track record of securing gains for it's pilots. USAPA, well...

 

[Bad-Andy]

You seem so giddy to see the end of USAPA that you appear to want APA to represent you in a seniority list integration with ... APA. Ask the TWA guys how that worked out for them.

I, for one, will be very happy to see what APA can (and will) do for all of us. Their worst (the concessionary deal that makes the backbone of the MOU) is miles ahead of what either 2 ALPAs or USAPA got us. As for the TWA integration, fortunately Federal Law (M-B) protects us from that -- unless our own union throws us under the bus...

Giddy about seeing the demise of USAPA? You bet your ass I am. A year and a half ago they got rid of some of the best negotiating committee guys I've known, and what were we left with? Nothing, that's what. Friends of the new supreme leader. The dysfunction and infighting is a joke. At least APA has a strong negotiating committee and an even better business analysis group.

Good riddance to the dues collecting, lawsuit-happy, hypocritical, trip-loss w************************* running the show now...

 

[Hpilot]

I, for one, will be very happy to see what APA can (and will) do for all of us. Their worst (the concessionary deal that makes the backbone of the MOU) is miles ahead of what either 2 ALPAs or USAPA got us. As for the TWA integration, fortunately Federal Law (M-B) protects us from that -- unless our own union throws us under the bus...

Giddy about seeing the demise of USAPA? You bet your ass I am. A year and a half ago they got rid of some of the best negotiating committee guys I've known, and what were we left with? Nothing, that's what. Friends of the new supreme leader. The dysfunction and infighting is a joke. At least APA has a strong negotiating committee and an even better business analysis group.

Good riddance to the dues collecting, lawsuit-happy, hypocritical, trip-loss w************************* running the show now...

Amen, my brother from another mother.

This circus of a union can't go fast enough. All we can do is hope that in their last hours they can show some maturity and not do too much damage on the way out. Oh, who am I kidding, this is USAPA, they'll be lobing grenades left and right.

 

[doh]

Isn't today the last day of court? The judge just has to rule now...then the endless appeals...

 

[Dan Roman]

I have to wonder if the business plan is to count on the USAPA generated stream of never ending lawsuits as a tool to keep pilot costs down. There are always going to be lawsuits keeping the combined airline from ever being a strong unified voice. Which means the airplanes will still move, but the pilots flying them will always make less than their peers.

 

[Guppiedriver]

I have to wonder if the business plan is to count on the USAPA generated stream of never ending lawsuits as a tool to keep pilot costs down. There are always going to be lawsuits keeping the combined airline from ever being a strong unified voice. Which means the airplanes will still move, but the pilots flying them will always make less than their peers.

That is not possible this time around. As of the "Effective Date" of the merger (middle of December), the new pay rates go into effect. The effective date (POR) will also trigger the following:



At the POR ? Estimated to be mid December 2013

• Retrospective Pay ? is planned for the December 30th check.
• $40 Million Lump Sum Distribution ? the Company is currently planning to pay the lump sum distribution on the first pay period of 2014. We are working to expedite the process to obtain a 2013 payout.
  • Next week USAPA will mail a letter to eligible pilots? homes of record that will show your calculated individual payout for review.
  • The verification process will run for 2-1/2 weeks.
  • Once the verification process is completed we will be able to provide an exact payout date.
  • A Full Share is estimated at approximately $8,700, click the links to view BPR Resolution and the Business Intelligence Update for projected calculations.
• The 14% Defined Contribution (DC) rate for 2013 will be prorated based on the POR date. The 16% rate will commence on January 1, 2014.
• Profit Sharing will end on the POR date. The payment for 2013 will be processed and paid out in March 2014, in accordance with the BPR Profit Sharing resolution.
• Other Items effective on the POR (applicable section in the 2012 AA CBA):
  • Company-paid Parking Permits (Letter M)
  • Per Diem Rate & Crew Meals (Section 7)
  • Flying/Furlough Protections (MOU)
  • Group 1Displacement Pay Protection (MOU)
  • Block Hour Protections, Scope & Code Sharing (Section 1)
  • Moving Expenses (Section 8)
  • Vacation.Accrual (Section 9)
  • Discipline-Grievance-System Board (Section 21)
  • Pre Arbitration Conference (Section 22)
  • System Board of Adjustment (System 23)
  • Drug & Alcohol testing (Supplement L)
  • International Crew Bases (Supplement P)
  • Life Insurance (East/West Grandfathered)
  • Sick Leave (Section 10)
  • Check Airmen (pay what you can hold provision and per diem ? other areas TBD)
  • Probation (Section 14)
  • Certificates and Ratings (Section 16)
  • Physical Examinations (Section 20)
  • Commuter Policy (Supplement G)
  • Uniforms (Supplement K)
• New Pay Rates
• Transition of West pilots to East pay system

January 1, 2014

• 16% DC rate
• Per Diem $2.10 per hour domestic - $2.30/hr. international
• Eight percent increase to pay rates

Other Scheduled Items

• Approximately March 2014 - Profit Sharing Distribution
• Effective 4/1/2014 ? All Leaves of Absence including LTD (Section 11)
• Effective 1/1/2015 ? Transition to AA medical and benefit plans begins. Pilots will remain under the current US Airways plans throughout 2014.

JCBA and Seniority Integration Timelines:

 

[greyskyracer]

Thanks for the rundown Gup.

Do you now when reserve days off go to 12-13? And what the commuter policy you mentioned is?

 

[Guppiedriver]

Thanks for the rundown Gup.

Do you now when reserve days off go to 12-13? And what the commuter policy you mentioned is?

I don't think anybody knows when the scheduling section is going to be implemented.

Commuter Policy
The following sets forth the Commuter Policy for all (regular and reserve) pilots when circumstances prevent them from reporting for duty as previously planned or scheduled:
1. Pilots are expected to exercise prudent judgment and planning to avoid commuting problems, and are responsible for reporting for all assigned trip sequences with sufficient time and with adequate rest prior to beginning scheduled duty.
2. The pilot will notify Crew Schedule as soon as possible when it is known that a scheduled sign-in is no longer possible.
3. Pilots who commute by other means (e.g. automobile, train, bus, etc.) shall also be covered under this policy for unforeseen events, provided they notify Crew Schedule as soon as such events become known, and the scheduled sign-in is no longer possible. Examples of such events include but are not limited to severe unforecasted weather conditions, vehicular accidents and mechanical breakdowns.
4. Commuting pilots who arrive at their domicile after the first flight of their sequence has departed, or another pilot has been assigned to cover the flight, shall be subject to any of the following, at the discretion of Crew Schedule:
a. Deadheaded down line to rejoin hislher scheduled sequence, or b. Assigned to any sequence by mutual agreement between the pilot and Crew Schedule, or c. Assigned to another sequence which is scheduled to terminate no later than the same calendar day, or first available the following day, or d. Removed from the scheduled sequence, or available day if on reserve, without pay.
5. For pay purposes under this Policy, the following shall apply:
a. Flight time missed will be unpaid and uncredited (see Paragraph 9). b. Deadhead flights to join a new sequence, or the original sequence, will be unpaid (except for scheduled sequences that begin with a deadhead). c. Flying assigned other than as scheduled on the original sequence will be treated as a reschedule.
6. A pilot scheduled to fly a trip sequence which originates with a deadhead must request permission from Crew Scheduling to deviate from the scheduled deadhead no later than three hours prior to the originally scheduled sign-in time at the domicile. Permission for a deadhead to the station of actual flying origin will not be unreasonably withheld. The -1
deadhead will occur under the same travel pass classification as the originally scheduled deadhead. The current reassignment practices for pilots deadheading from home to a station of actual flying origin other than their domicile will remain in effect.
7. A Commuter who is scheduled to deadhead to base on the last leg of a trip sequence may request permission from Crew Scheduling to be released for purposes of deviating from the scheduled deadhead, utilizing the appropriate Business travel pass classification. Such permission will not be unreasonably withheld.
8. Deviations from scheduled deadheads per 7. and 8. above shall be to/from domestic locations only on American and/or any Company owned affiliate.
9. It is expected that a pilot will utilize the provisions of this Policy on a rare basis. Each event involving the use of this Policy will be considered independently and judged on its own unique circumstances. However, repeated use of this Policy may be considered in evaluations of a pilot's overall attendance/reliability and may require flight documentation going forward. Such documentation may include, but not limited to, the following:
a. Adequate actual seat availability within twenty-four (24) hours of departure for online flights, or
b. Scheduled to operate twenty-four (24) hours prior to departure for off line flights, and/or
c. Flight scheduled to arrive at the pilot's domicile at a reasonable time before scheduled sign-in. Additionally, the flight time lost may be changed to credited if the Chief Pilot determines that the intent of this Policy was not followed.
10. Nothing in this Supplemental Agreement shall be construed or interpreted as a change or modification to the past practice of a reserve pilot being “?reasonably available by surface transportation" to the airport.
11. In the event the FAA amends its policies to treat commuting time as a break in a pilot's rest period:
a. This Commuter Policy shall be suspended on the effective date of such change, and b. The Company and the Association shall seek agreement on a suitable amendment to, or replacement for, this Commuter Policy, and c. Such meetings shall commence promptly upon the announcement by the FAA.

 

[cbrown1]

I don't think anybody knows when the scheduling section is going to be implemented.

Commuter Policy
The following sets forth the Commuter Policy for all (regular and reserve) pilots when circumstances prevent them from reporting for duty as previously planned or scheduled:
1. Pilots are expected to exercise prudent judgment and planning to avoid commuting problems, and are responsible for reporting for all assigned trip sequences with sufficient time and with adequate rest prior to beginning scheduled duty.
2. The pilot will notify Crew Schedule as soon as possible when it is known that a scheduled sign-in is no longer possible.
3. Pilots who commute by other means (e.g. automobile, train, bus, etc.) shall also be covered under this policy for unforeseen events, provided they notify Crew Schedule as soon as such events become known, and the scheduled sign-in is no longer possible. Examples of such events include but are not limited to severe unforecasted weather conditions, vehicular accidents and mechanical breakdowns.
4. Commuting pilots who arrive at their domicile after the first flight of their sequence has departed, or another pilot has been assigned to cover the flight, shall be subject to any of the following, at the discretion of Crew Schedule:
a. Deadheaded down line to rejoin hislher scheduled sequence, or b. Assigned to any sequence by mutual agreement between the pilot and Crew Schedule, or c. Assigned to another sequence which is scheduled to terminate no later than the same calendar day, or first available the following day, or d. Removed from the scheduled sequence, or available day if on reserve, without pay.
5. For pay purposes under this Policy, the following shall apply:
a. Flight time missed will be unpaid and uncredited (see Paragraph 9). b. Deadhead flights to join a new sequence, or the original sequence, will be unpaid (except for scheduled sequences that begin with a deadhead). c. Flying assigned other than as scheduled on the original sequence will be treated as a reschedule.
6. A pilot scheduled to fly a trip sequence which originates with a deadhead must request permission from Crew Scheduling to deviate from the scheduled deadhead no later than three hours prior to the originally scheduled sign-in time at the domicile. Permission for a deadhead to the station of actual flying origin will not be unreasonably withheld. The -1
deadhead will occur under the same travel pass classification as the originally scheduled deadhead. The current reassignment practices for pilots deadheading from home to a station of actual flying origin other than their domicile will remain in effect.
7. A Commuter who is scheduled to deadhead to base on the last leg of a trip sequence may request permission from Crew Scheduling to be released for purposes of deviating from the scheduled deadhead, utilizing the appropriate Business travel pass classification. Such permission will not be unreasonably withheld.
8. Deviations from scheduled deadheads per 7. and 8. above shall be to/from domestic locations only on American and/or any Company owned affiliate.
9. It is expected that a pilot will utilize the provisions of this Policy on a rare basis. Each event involving the use of this Policy will be considered independently and judged on its own unique circumstances. However, repeated use of this Policy may be considered in evaluations of a pilot's overall attendance/reliability and may require flight documentation going forward. Such documentation may include, but not limited to, the following:
a. Adequate actual seat availability within twenty-four (24) hours of departure for online flights, or
b. Scheduled to operate twenty-four (24) hours prior to departure for off line flights, and/or
c. Flight scheduled to arrive at the pilot's domicile at a reasonable time before scheduled sign-in. Additionally, the flight time lost may be changed to credited if the Chief Pilot determines that the intent of this Policy was not followed.
10. Nothing in this Supplemental Agreement shall be construed or interpreted as a change or modification to the past practice of a reserve pilot being ??reasonably available by surface transportation" to the airport.
11. In the event the FAA amends its policies to treat commuting time as a break in a pilot's rest period:
a. This Commuter Policy shall be suspended on the effective date of such change, and b. The Company and the Association shall seek agreement on a suitable amendment to, or replacement for, this Commuter Policy, and c. Such meetings shall commence promptly upon the announcement by the FAA.

I don't see a number of flight you have to attempt prior to show. Am I missing it someplace or is there none?