Fedex Plane Down In Japan

[regionaltard]

Right, everyone?

I'd say that everyone who thinks that you're an idiot is right. Wasn't Manners 101 part of the curriculum at the puppy farm you got your ratings at?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I think we have been concentrating too much on the flying characteristics of the MD-11, they don't get any more nimble and a more benign flying platform than the 76 and all this weekend the winds have just been hauling here in TYO, landing in Haneda a couple of days ago It was like I was having a wrestling match with with the controls and the thrust levers. Wind sheer and cross wind is challenging in any A/C and the best way to honor these pilot's legacy is by learning from this, the lessons apply to any A/C from the RJ to the a-380


PS: How about if we stop disrespecting each other

 

[WayBack]

If I wanted to say that, I would have. That FedEx has suffered a disproportionate number of approach accidents resulting in hull losses is a fact. It's not my opinion, not my speculation, just a cold, hard fact.

Why that is so, I don't know, nor claim to know, but if this doesn't look like some kind of a systemic failure, I don't know what does.

Bulldozing me, because I don't have quite enough hours won't change that.

How dare you question a real fact when it involves mainline pilots. You're just RJ scum and nothing more.
Had this been another Regional crew, the mainline guys would be offering their jabs and that would be just fine....as they did in the Colgan thread.
Double Standard.

 

[d.fitz]

If I wanted to say that, I would have. That FedEx has suffered a disproportionate number of approach accidents resulting in hull losses is a fact. It's not my opinion, not my speculation, just a cold, hard fact.

Why that is so, I don't know, nor claim to know, but if this doesn't look like some kind of a systemic failure, I don't know what does.

Bulldozing me, because I don't have quite enough hours won't change that.

God forbid you actually ask why, and feel sorry for the crew and their families at the same time. Shame on you for wanting to educate yourself.

It's not time for that yet... And you didn't use the right words either.... I guess I missed manners 101 too...

You guys are really missing the point.

 

[waka]

I have no clue why people get mad about posting what you did. Trying to figure out what the hell is wrong here is pretty important, especially if its a recurring thing with this plane. Speculation on what happened is also important to talk about, and talk about it NOW.

Looks like that left main gear just collapsed the second it hit on that final touchdown. That left wing dropped in the blink of an eye.

Crazy!!!

Are you going to solve it on a message board thread Mr. NTSB Investigator?

If you're defending this jerk's timing, you have zero clue about what is and is not important. There is a time and place for educated speculation and learning from an accident. Guess what genius? That time is not while awaiting word of the crew's survival.

Beavis and Butthead, both of you can mentally masturbate each other somewhere else.

 

[WayBack]

Are you going to solve it on a message board thread Mr. NTSB Investigator?

If you're defending this jerk's timing, you have zero clue about what is and is not important. There is a time and place for educated speculation and learning from an accident. Guess what genius? That time is not while awaiting word of the crew's survival.

Beavis and Butthead, both of you can mentally masturbate each other somewhere else.

Get bent.
No one is knocking the crew. People have a short term memory when major guys were bashing the Colgan crew. All of the sudden when someone at your level has a bad day, no one is allowed to speak of it.
The guy asked an honestly good question. It's a fact that FedEx has balled up more than their share on approach/landings.

 

[waveflyer]

God speed- the bell tolls for all of us.

We had a good stretch-- now it's real again the responsibility we all take on. USAir. Colgan. Butte, MT, and FedEx. I'll quote again an old FO of mine- "what we do isn't really all that important" as i was explaining that he was worth more than $19 an hour- while he explained to me that his engineer and doctor friends have much harder jobs.
I'll leave the politics of every profession being under attack by corporate america business major pricks who make double in a year what we will in a 30 year career- and just ask we all remember and value what we do.
What we do is THIS serious. And we face that every day. We get over ourselves b/c we fly with a lot of very talented and proficient pilots everyday- but what we do is special, it's productive, and it's a hell of a responsibility.

Godspeed all of us- my thoughts and prayers are with FedEx.

 

[climbhappy]

all of a sudden when someone at your level has a day , no one is allowed to speak of it

if i look at the video, this statement just sails over my head. Bad day? wow!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Funny how everyone can say something but has anyone flown the Md-11 on here, I would like to hear what they have to say. I have heard it was a great plane to fly after the software update and a nice one to land. god bless them both.

It's a handful in a crosswind. I'm glad to be in a 767 these days.

 

[flyboyike]

How dare you question a real fact when it involves mainline pilots. You're just RJ scum and nothing more.

Yes, I gathered that much.

 

[waka]

Get bent.

Really intelligent response!

No one is knocking the crew. People have a short term memory when major guys were bashing the Colgan crew. All of the sudden when someone at your level has a bad day, no one is allowed to speak of it.
The guy asked an honestly good question. It's a fact that FedEx has balled up more than their share on approach/landings.

Yes, in a sense it is knocking the crew if people are already making comments while people were awaiting word on the crew's survival.

Oh, so a few "major guys" bash Colgan and now you're saying it's payback time? Dude/dudette, you have a real chip on your shoulder. Relax, you're way too high strung.

No, it isn't at about people not being allowed to speak about it. It is about TIMING and TACT.

 

[flyboyike]

Relax, you're way too high strung.

Not compared to you, he's not.

 

[BigMotorToter]

F/O was furloughed from AA in Oct. 2001. Also was at Jetblue. Finally gets a really good gig and then this. Very Sad.

 

[flyboyike]

Wasn't Manners 101 part of the curriculum at the puppy farm you got your ratings at?

See now I see what my problem is. I didn't go to a puppy farm, but thank you for playing.

 

[Jim Smyth]

See now I see what my problem is. I didn't go to a puppy farm, but thank you for playing.

You are like my kid that always has to get the last smart A$$ comment in. Why don't you go over and solve all the problems over at the Regional's section!

 

[Flyer2000]

Thanks to whomever posted the names. I have quite a few military friends over at FedEx whom I have lost contact with. While I am thankful it wasn't anyone I knew....I feel a great sadness for the families loss here.

RIP

 

[LJ45]

An interesting article written in 2006.

“FedEx Burns Another
Safety Lessons from the Latest Accident of a FedEx Aircraft
Air Safety Week 08/07/2006

It’s been an article of faith among multi-engine pilots that if you
drive your bird in a little hard, forget to flare or kick off the drift,
then all that will happen is that touchdown will feel significantly
different, a few fuel-tank seams might weep tears of fuel, and the
engineers might rib you for causing them extra work.

Of course, you will have admitted your sins to them, written up the bird
and waited anxiously while they carry out a heavy landing inspection.
That check will progressively indicate, item by item, whether you’ve
permanently bent anything, or whether they need to check more deeply
because of what they’ve found. Most of the time, you will not have bent
anything and the procedure is quite perfunctory. It could happen that
you’ve bottomed out the oleos and witness-marked an indicator. Rarely
will a heavy landing blow or even scrub a tire, let alone damage the
gear or airframe.

After the latest FedEx MD-10 burning on runway 18R at Memphis, Tennessee
on July 30, the company’s pilots might be forgiven for surrendering up
the above article of faith. In fact, they may be pondering why their
“Mad Dogs” are so lame that their legs collapse at will. FedEx pilots
are made of sterner stuff, so they will just take it on the chin and
polish their landing techniques, making sure to properly adrenalize
before each and every landing. “Failure is not an option” I seem to
recall someone famous saying, while baying at the moon. Evidently the
Mad Dogs 10 and 11 never got that message. They appear to be
particularly weak-kneed.

It Seldom Happens In the latest accident, the left landing gear failed
on the airplane during landing, sending sparks into dry grass beside the
runway that ignited a fire. Three people on board used an emergency
landing chute on the right side of the plane to safely escape, avoiding
the burning engine on the other side. Fire crews responded quickly and
doused the fire with foam, containing it to the engine area and
preventing it from spreading to the rest of the aircraft. The plane,
identified as FedEx Flight 630, had departed from Seattle, Washington.
Les Dorr, an FAA official in Washington D.C., said landing gear failure
is a rare occurrence. “A landing gear collapse on a large transport-type
aircraft is a pretty rare event,” Dorr said. “It seldom happens.”
The MD-10 was a valiant attempt by FedEx/MD (and then MD’s takeover
merchant Boeing) to use up the remaining life in the plentiful old DC-10
airframes by upgrading the cockpit to an MD-11 style two-man standard,
simultaneously rewiring and freighter-converting it. Like the two-man
MD-11F operation, it promised to be a very economical long-haul
freighter. The DC-10-10 had a Max Gross Weight increase to 446,000lbs
and the DC-10-30 to a massive 580,000lbs in the Series 30 MD-10. That
boost in cargo-carrying capability required “structural changes”.

The Advanced Common Flight Deck was intended to allow FedEx pilots to
operate either the MD-10 or MD-11 interchangeably, for maximum
scheduling efficiencies. However, when the FedEx pilots got their hands
on the MD-10, they protested vociferously. They considered that there
were sufficient dissimilarities as to make any dual qualification
unsafe. Unlike the 757/767 and the A340/A330 combos, the MD-10/MD-11
basic designs and handling qualities were of two entirely different
eras. The company didn’t agree and the FAA and Boeing backed FedEx, so
the pilots got to operate both. One wonders whether the Flight
Operations Quality Assurance (FOQA) program has since disclosed any
lingering safety interludes for those who fly both, interchangeably.
FOQA regularly checks data-recorders for any pilot handling quirks that
would be better if they were ironed out with counseling or added
training. One could also speculate as to whether any such handling
difficulties, particularly the touchdown, might have carried over into
longer term aircraft fatigue damage. The MD-11 has had to undergo a
number of flight-control software patches in an attempt to cure it of
some of its near-the-ground vices. It is reportedly very unforgiving of
a one gear first hard touchdown, as the pilot of a Mandarin Airlines
passenger flight found on his arrival in Hong Kong on the night of Aug.
22, 1999.

Turning Turtle That aircraft lost its right gear and wing, inverted and
caught fire, killing 3 passengers.

The pilot had disconnected the autopilot but left the autothrottle
engaged, which failed to compensate for the gusting crosswind. An
amateur video showed the aircraft’s quite normal approach in turbulent
conditions, followed by a high-rate descent beginning at around 50 ft RA
(radar altimeter). Wind-shear had caused a sudden loss of around 20kts
and the autothrottle failed to respond. That was the height it was
software-scheduled to throttle-close for the flare (or landing
round-out).

Near to max landing weight, and in an unremarkable less than 4 degree
right wing down attitude (for the crosswind), the aircraft hit with a
high rate of descent. This allowed the RH oleo to bottom out, the #3
engine to touch the runway and break off, taking the RH wing with it.
Looking at the relative positions of the wing-gear and the engines
(further outboard), it’s not surprising that the weight of the engine
should allow its downward inertia to lever the wing off above the gear
in a hard touchdown.

It’s this lack of robustness that gives the MD-11/MD-10 its undoubtedly
unique characteristic, for a wide-body, of being able to shed a wing and
achieve an inverted attitude on the ground. Other MD-11 pilots expressed
surprise that an experienced MD-11 driver would have left the
autothrottle engaged in these conditions. Most had found that the
programmed throttle closure in the flare could often, as in this case,
prove to be the opposite of what conditions (particularly rapid onset
wind gusts) demanded. The only other available solution for arresting a
high-rate descent near the ground is backstick. Unfortunately in the
MD-11, that means an automatic hard tailstrike and a million dollar
damage bill. Pilots are taught to freeze the pitch attitude and “fly
out” of any high rate descent near the flare with added power. That
might kill the speed bleed and extend the landing roll but it precludes
the tailstrike. In the Mandarin case, with a nasty wind-shear, the
throttles auto-closing at just the wrong moment and the pilot
pre-programmed NOT to use backstick, the accident deal was already
closed.

On Dec. 21, 1992 a Martinair DC-10 PH-MBN touched down hard in gusty
conditions at Faro, Portugal. It was again a right gear first touchdown
-- and the wing separated. On July 31, 1997, a FedEx MD-11F touched down
hard at Newark, New Jersey with a 500 ft/min descent rate and a slight
right bank. The right wing-spar broke and the aircraft ended up on its
back, burning. The finding was that the landing was over-controlled and
a go-round should have been carried out. On Dec. 18, 2003 it happened
again, to an MD-10 at Memphis on runway 36R, after a quite stable
approach. A young F/O never quite got the drift off and touched down
firmly on the right gear with a very slightly banked attitude. The RH
gear collapsed and the aircraft burnt out. The NTSB faulted the pilot
and the flight captain, who was also a check and training pilot. The
company changed its training regimen after that accident.

The common denominator for the generic DC-10 and its spawned sub-types
would seem to be an underbuilt wing that allows a coupled engine
inertia/main-gear response to break the wing or gear-mounts, in any
slightly wing-down, harder than normal arrival. When combined with the
aircraft’s heightened pitch sensitivity and the
MD-10-10/MD-10-30/MD-11F’s quirky differences, it would seem that a
FedEx pilot goes frequently in harm’s way and must work harder than most
to “keep it all together".

 

[OneBadLT123]

An interesting article written in 2006.

Wow, thats a hell of a good read there...

 

[waka]

Not compared to you, he's not.

No amount of fantasizing will get you the validity you crave. Keep trying though.

 

[mittro]

I had the opportunity to fly with Captain Kevin Mosley back at Horizon Air. What an excellent individual and great guy to fly with!

GODSPEED Kevin...........