FedEx at Air Inc.

[airmasn]

Anyone talk to the FedEx recruiter last weekend in Atlanta at the Air, Inc. conference? Just wondering if anything good would have come of attending?

 

[320AV8R]

Anyone talk to the FedEx recruiter last weekend in Atlanta at the Air, Inc. conference? Just wondering if anything good would have come of attending?

I talked to a FEDEX guy in ATL......he was very nice. He was quite diplomatic in saying that the one guy I know there isn't enough. You have to have two or three internal recs nowadays. Oh yea, and a current FE written...at least.

320AV8R

 

[RJDC]

I bet you could get a good labor lawyer and file a discrimination lawsuit against FedEx for "requiring" internal recommendations. It's not fair to us that don't know anyone that works there to be discriminated against like that. Most of us are more that qualified to work there otherwise.

 

[Dizel8]

I bet you could get a good labor lawyer and file a discrimination lawsuit against FedEx for "requiring" internal recommendations. It's not fair to us that don't know anyone that works there to be discriminated against like that. Most of us are more that qualified to work there otherwise.

Woe is me, if you are RJDC.

Now grow up or better yet, go away!

 

[800Dog]

I bet you could get a good labor lawyer and file a discrimination lawsuit against FedEx for "requiring" internal recommendations. It's not fair to us that don't know anyone that works there to be discriminated against like that. Most of us are more that qualified to work there otherwise.

Whoever told you life was fair?

 

[RJDC]

Life should be fair for us that don't have internal recs.

 

[stonewall]

Life should be fair for those of us that don't have rich parents. Or were born short. Or ugly. Or stupid. Or all of the above. Or don't win the lottery. Or who don't drive a nice car or make a ton of money.

Why don't we all write our congressmen (er, congresspersons of all races, since not everyone was born white and male) and have them enact legislation that will take every injustice, perceived or actual, and completely eliminate it. Then finally we'll have the "level playing field" that everyone wants so desperately.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Get a ground job at FedEX.
Join a USAFR or Guard unit in Tenn.
Join the active duty military.
Network, network, network.
Females and minoroties and white males are getting hired by doing the same thing. Working their respective contacts and being persistant. If I can do it anyone can.

 

[Launchpad]

Can't you just sue the Fedex pilot group and get an interview that way?

 

[LeonPhelps]

RJDC...you are killin' me ovah heah!

RJDC, I hope all your talk of suing is an absolute joke...otherwise, I'm laughing my a$$ off at something not intended to be funny. I've seen you post three things today about suing for everything from not having a rec, to wanting the right seat of a -74...and brother, I haven't laughed this hard in a while.

If you are serious...well, I think everybody else pretty much said it!

Piece...

 

[V-STALL]

It's not fair to us that don't know anyone that works there to be discriminated against like that.

WAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!

 

[LeonPhelps]

Back to the original thread...

And by the way, regarding the original thread...I felt like the FedEx greeters at Air, Inc. weren't as active in recruiting as some of the other stations. I kinda got the feeling that the FedEx guys were there more as a formality, as opposed to the AirTran guys who were actually doing mini-interviews and talking upcoming interview dates on the spot. Heck, one of the FedEx greeters was a new hire pilot who hadn't even started his class yet, and was just accepting resumes and throwing them in the big ole stack.

Maybe RJDC could sue to force the greeters to take his attendance at the Air, Inc job fair more seriously...

 

[b757driver]

Discrimination is.....plain discrimination, no matter how you sugar-coated.It IS against the law, and has been for years, to discriminate on the basis of age, religion, race etc. It's not about fairness per se but calling a spade a spade. Why then does it say on every airline app - incl. FEDEX - "we are an EQUAL opportunity employer....we do NOT discriminate according to........"???? And let me guess....they still take your application fee to keep their HR folks happy, knowing full well that unless you meet their strict criteria, you will not stand a chance. May or may not be legal in some states but it's certainly distasteful at best and unethical at best.
It's been quite clear for some time that a whole community of potential employees are NOT being given an EQUAL opportunity and are being discriminated against for not having "enough buds" to recommend them. This remains the SOLE criteria for hiring, not experience, qualifications, nor individual merit or achievement. I know because I know someone there that tried his best (met and even exceeded all the other requirements) but could not even get a System Chief Pilot to make a sensible comment on a candidate because he was "not worthy" to be interviewed!
Why do you think the recruiters were so low key & sullen?? They clearly were uncomfortable being there because everyone knew what their agenda was and it was a waste of space talking to them unless you had plenty of buds there who would work the magic and keep it a closed shop.
For the record, I gave up on FDX a long time ago and am glad I did not waste my energy on such a closed-shop organization. My advice is to stay away and concentrate your time and resources on a user-friendly airline that values diverse skills and what you can bring to the table, not a clique airline that merely wants clones. Trust me, you will be much happier elsewhere. Shiny airplanes are not the only things that go to make a good career.

 

[b757driver]

Get a ground job at FedEX.
Join a USAFR or Guard unit in Tenn.
Join the active duty military.
Network, network, network.
Females and minoroties and white males are getting hired by doing the same thing. Working their respective contacts and being persistant. If I can do it anyone can.

Oh yeah, right on....easy as pie....and everyone can do it! Let's all move to TN now.:laugh:
You are forgetting to mention some VERY important things and also assuming a lot. Not every potential canndidate is eligible to join the military reserve or active duty nor desires it. So.....that counts them out then according to your theory.
And.....you forgot to mention that you can be all that but the bottom line is, unless you know X number of insiders who know you intimately, it does not matter what your background is, you will NOT get an interview even if you have 4 lunar landings!!
Getting a ground job @ Fedex is NOT a way in. That's fact. Same for UPS, by the way.
What about the people who have been persistent for 3, 4 or more years, should they go on dreaming for another decade?? Why should they carry on flogging a dead horse. It is human nature to expect a return on your investment at some point. If you can't get past the first gate no matter how good you are, you really are wasting your time. Sorry, but I call a spade a spade and sometimes the truth hurts.

 

[mar]

A little controversial but a good post (I think)

For the record, I gave up on FDX a long time ago and am glad I did not waste my energy on such a closed-shop organization. My advice is to stay away and concentrate your time and resources on a user-friendly airline that values diverse skills and what you can bring to the table, not a clique airline that merely wants clones. Trust me, you will be much happier elsewhere. Shiny airplanes are not the only things that go to make a good career.

This is pretty much where I stand with Southwest.

I think SWA is a great airline but I have drawn a line. I'm not paying for my type. And therefore I'll never work for SWA. Nothing against SWA or the great pilots who work there (and I have several friends who do) but I just cannot afford it.

Too bad for me. Too bad for them. Life goes on.

 

[ATRCAPT]

Discrimination is.....plain discrimination, no matter how you sugar-coated.It IS against the law, and has been for years, to discriminate on the basis of age, religion, race etc. It's not about fairness per se but calling a spade a spade. Why then does it say on every airline app - incl. FEDEX - "we are an EQUAL opportunity employer....we do NOT discriminate according to........"???? And let me guess....they still take your application fee to keep their HR folks happy, knowing full well that unless you meet their strict criteria, you will not stand a chance. May or may not be legal in some states but it's certainly distasteful at best and unethical at best.
It's been quite clear for some time that a whole community of potential employees are NOT being given an EQUAL opportunity and are being discriminated against for not having "enough buds" to recommend them. This remains the SOLE criteria for hiring, not experience, qualifications, nor individual merit or achievement. I know because I know someone there that tried his best (met and even exceeded all the other requirements) but could not even get a System Chief Pilot to make a sensible comment on a candidate because he was "not worthy" to be interviewed!
Why do you think the recruiters were so low key & sullen?? They clearly were uncomfortable being there because everyone knew what their agenda was and it was a waste of space talking to them unless you had plenty of buds there who would work the magic and keep it a closed shop.
For the record, I gave up on FDX a long time ago and am glad I did not waste my energy on such a closed-shop organization. My advice is to stay away and concentrate your time and resources on a user-friendly airline that values diverse skills and what you can bring to the table, not a clique airline that merely wants clones. Trust me, you will be much happier elsewhere. Shiny airplanes are not the only things that go to make a good career.

EXACTLY!!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way!

 

[sandman2122]

From RJDC

Most of us are more that qualified to work there otherwise

Maybe you MISSPELLED something your application. Just an observation. I like to use this novel tool called a "spellchecker". Since I attended a public school growing up, I need special crutches like thot - LOOK, you SEE! I just misspelled something! Darn, now if I had a spell checker on Flightinfo.com I could fix that but I won't because I'm lazy and never pay attention to detail, blame others for my shortcomings, etc. .....

Good luck with that lawsuit!

How about suing Flightinfo for not having a spellchecker while you're at it........

Don't forget RJDC: YOU'RE the VICTIM.

notice all the "edits"? just me spellchecking myself....try it!

 

[purple1day]

Southwest does not require the type for interview, and they are in fact interviewing people without the type. I myself interviewed recently at SWA with no 737 type.

 

[TheBaron]

It can be depressing...

...certain groups definitely seem to have an advantage when it comes to getting an interview at FedEx, but, regardless of what many have said, you can get hired here without multiple contacts and without a military background. I first applied in Novenmer of 1999 when I hit my 1000 hours of turbine PIC. A friend I flew with got hired in May of 2002 and he was my only "in" at the company. It seemed that I would never get the call, but instead of quitting, I redoubled my efforts. I began updating my online profile weekly and eventually after every trip. I went to AirInc job fairs and met with the HR people. I went to ramps at airports trying to make contacts. I shipped Christmas cookies to HR...anything to make my name stand out in the sea of 10,000+ qualified applicants. I finally got an interview early this year. I've been on the panel 6 months and will be start training for the MD-11 before my probation year is up. Had I not gotten the call this year, I would still be plugging away for as long as it takes. A positive attitude WILL get you where you want to go if you are willing to do the work.

 

[AdlerDriver]

I bet you could get a good labor lawyer and file a discrimination lawsuit against FedEx for "requiring" internal recommendations. It's not fair to us that don't know anyone that works there to be discriminated against like that. Most of us are more that qualified to work there otherwise.

Life should be fair for us that don't have internal recs.

Okay RJDC, so you and mr 757driver feel you're being discriminated against? Unbelievable!! What should we call this new form of discrimination? Do you think Fedex is the only company that relies on internal recommendations during their hiring process? For that matter, most other companies (not just airlines) do the same thing. There’s more to hiring than hours/experience on an app or resume and an hour in an interview room. The opinion of a known pilot who has flown with you, worked with you and knows you personally is invaluable in making that hiring decision.

You think someone is going to get a judge to force a business to ignore a source of information that would allow them to make the best decision on a potential employee? That employee is an investment/commitment who will require months and thousands of dollars in training and represent a 20-30+ year relationship with Fedex. Why should they be required to make that investment and commitment without evaluating all information available? No judge is going to force them to do that.

So, with more than 10,000 apps of qualified individuals on file and many thousands more trying to put them on file, what should be a “fair” basis for giving someone an interview? Unlike other carriers that are hiring right now, Fedex doesn’t waste their own resources and their candidate’s time interviewing people they don’t plan to hire. By the time they are sitting across the interview table, candidates have been evaluated to the point that Fedex wants to hire them unless they give them a reason not to. Part of this process is heavily dependant on incumbent pilots vouching for the candidates.

What criteria do YOU think they should use? Hours? Years of experience? Everyone who is competitive has them. You said it yourself: “Most of us are more than qualified to work there otherwise”. Do you really think anyone cares if you have more hours than some other pilot once you’ve both reached the point of being competitive for the job? What do you want Fedex to do when evaluating you and some other equally qualified candidate who has a recommendation? Should they give you the interview because you whine the loudest or give it to him because someone they trust says he’s worth hiring? I’ll take the second guy every time.

Other airlines rely on internal recs also. They just tease you with an interview and then show you the door because you don’t have someone pulling you in from the inside. Like I said, Fedex would rather put one more filter on the process and avoid wasting their time and yours.

 

[inline]

Okay RJDC, so you and mr 757driver feel you're being discriminated against? Unbelievable!! What should we call this new form of discrimination? Do you think Fedex is the only company that relies on internal recommendations during their hiring process? For that matter, most other companies (not just airlines) do the same thing. There’s more to hiring than hours/experience on an app or resume and an hour in an interview room. The opinion of a known pilot who has flown with you, worked with you and knows you personally is invaluable in making that hiring decision.

You think someone is going to get a judge to force a business to ignore a source of information that would allow them to make the best decision on a potential employee? That employee is an investment/commitment who will require months and thousands of dollars in training and represent a 20-30+ year relationship with Fedex. Why should they be required to make that investment and commitment without evaluating all information available? No judge is going to force them to do that.

So, with more than 10,000 apps of qualified individuals on file and many thousands more trying to put them on file, what should be a “fair” basis for giving someone an interview? Unlike other carriers that are hiring right now, Fedex doesn’t waste their own resources and their candidate’s time interviewing people they don’t plan to hire. By the time they are sitting across the interview table, candidates have been evaluated to the point that Fedex wants to hire them unless they give them a reason not to. Part of this process is heavily dependant on incumbent pilots vouching for the candidates.

What criteria do YOU think they should use? Hours? Years of experience? Everyone who is competitive has them. You said it yourself: “Most of us are more than qualified to work there otherwise”. Do you really think anyone cares if you have more hours than some other pilot once you’ve both reached the point of being competitive for the job? What do you want Fedex to do when evaluating you and some other equally qualified candidate who has a recommendation? Should they give you the interview because you whine the loudest or give it to him because someone they trust says he’s worth hiring? I’ll take the second guy every time.

Other airlines rely on internal recs also. They just tease you with an interview and then show you the door because you don’t have someone pulling you in from the inside. Like I said, Fedex would rather put one more filter on the process and avoid wasting their time and yours.

FedEx is staffed by 90% ex/current-military pilots . If you're a civilian hired by FedEx that is like winning the lottery. Could you imagine the howls of protest from ex-military pilots if airline xyz hired 90% civilian pilots?

 

[RAC396]

FedEx is staffed by 90% ex/current-military pilots . If you're a civilian hired by FedEx that is like winning the lottery. Could you imagine the howls of protest from ex-military pilots if airline xyz hired 90% civilian pilots?

This is sour grapes,and blatently untrue, I have been teaching new hires for five years,and the number of non military guys is well above the 10% mentioned above. Until 9-11,the non military guys avoided CARGO.They all wanted to be United,Delta,or US Air,pilots struting through the terminal with their hats on.The result was the military pilots now have a biger network,and have more access to internal rec's.Iknow of a few ex military applicants who wish they didn't know as many people on board, or maybe so many people didn't remember them.

 

[sandman2122]

Hey Baron!

I want your avatar's phone number!!

 

[AdlerDriver]

FedEx is staffed by 90% ex/current-military pilots . If you're a civilian hired by FedEx that is like winning the lottery. Could you imagine the howls of protest from ex-military pilots if airline xyz hired 90% civilian pilots?

I doubt there would be an "howls" at all. No military pilot would want to work for a company that blatantly stupid.

 

[Purpledog]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! The entitlement generation. Pitching boxes does help and everyone is capable if you can lower your holier than thou standards. I know I guy who did it at FDX and a friend who got picked up at Brown after being a courier.

 

[capt. megadeth]

What about the people who have been persistent for 3, 4 or more years, should they go on dreaming for another decade?? Why should they carry on flogging a dead horse. It is human nature to expect a return on your investment at some point. If you can't get past the first gate no matter how good you are, you really are wasting your time. Sorry, but I call a spade a spade and sometimes the truth hurts.

I tried at FedEx and UPS for over 5 years. It all worked out. Yes, it does suck to kiss a$$ and go through all all the b.s. in order to get the job but one thing is for sure......if you get pi$$ed about it and give up, you definitely won't get the job...... Soooooo, ya just gotta do it if you want the job.

 

[b757driver]

Calling a spade a spade!

Good for you!
5 years is a an extremely long time to wait for something that you have no control over and I would venture to say most people would rather focus their energies on something that produces results much sooner.
As I said before, I have no axe to grind, and am happy in my current job. I have absolutely no wish to be part of a company that does this kind of thing. My reason for jumping in is to warn other, less well-informed pilots what lies ahead and if they know no one at FEDEX very well, their energies would be better spent elsewhere. The choice is theirs to make but sometimes you can learn from others "mistakes" and save a lot of heartache. I, for one, would have appreciated the downside of airline apps/hiring practices instead of all the rah, rah stuff and "hang on in there", persistence pays off, let's go to a job fair stuff. I used to drink all the Koolaid stuff until I found out what really went on behind closed doors.
Yes, I know that most airlines use internal recs but not to the extreme that FEdex does - THREE INTERNAL RECS who know you intimately, come on, I was not born yesterday!!! I believe FDX is the only carrier that REQUIRES 3 before they'll even look at you. If that is 100% true then they are unique and you cannot compare them to other carriers that also use internal recs. Most of the others do not use these as the SOLE criteria for interviewing. No wonder it takes 5 or more years!!
Let's just all agree that a spade is a spade and change the wording on the app. No one has mentioned that part yet, I wonder why? What do those words mean? Just lip service? A little white lie?
Also, the majority of airlines (including virtually every foreign carrier) does not do this type of screening and they do just fine. Holier than thou? It's the other way around surely. Fedex's discriminatory practices are what makes IT holier than thou, not the people who are merely pointing out the FACTS. I would not have wasted MY time (a few years ago) if HR had been more forthright and up-front in their hiring process rather than hide behind some shady practices and take my money and run. I suppose you fully justify being hoodwinked also. There is nothing wrong with using internal recommendations but there is something fundamentally wrong when you make the hiring process a clique and automatically exclude large portions of qualified candidates. Again, if that's what they want to do, fine, but don't insult my intelligence by saying "we are an equal opportunity employer" when clearly they are not. THAT is my only objection.

I did not mention anything about suing, that was someone else. Why do you folks always assume the extreme? Only in America, as they say.....I now understand more than ever why the rest of the world laughs at us when it comes to litigation......but that's another subject.

Quote <I shipped Christmas cookies to HR...anything>

Yes, sometimes brown-nosing (sorry UPS!) will get you everything. Please! How professional is that? This sounds like 8th grade stuff. You should should not HAVE to do things like this to be competitive.
I recall being told once by a check airman that "you can brown nose your way all over this industry, be your boss's yes man and gopher, or you risk popularity by speaking your mind when approriate, even if you have to disagree with others or company culture". Those words have stuck with me ever since. At the end of the day each style will probably have the same rate of career advancement, but the latter will make you feel a whole lot better about yourself and that's where I stand today.

 

[sandman2122]

Sure you don't have an "axe to grind".

It's pretty evident 7 paragraphs later.......

 

[satpak77]

Yes, sometimes brown-nosing (sorry UPS!) will get you everything. Please! How professional is that? This sounds like 8th grade stuff. You should should not HAVE to do things like this to be competitive.

Call it brown-nosing, politic-ing, etc. Some of us call it "getting noticed." If you want to apply and then just let your resume sit in a pile with 1000's of others, and take no further action, because "its not right", then fine.

Others have sent flowers to CP's secretaries, tackled Cecil Ewell (AA) in the parking lot, and sent squadron patches to HR departments. One Capt I met while jump seating a long long time ago at American was a HS grad, no college, but while at Eagle he had accumulated like 20 letters of appreciation from passengers, which he attached to his resume. No, it was not required to submit these.

Barring anything else, two resumes with 5000 TT/2000 turbine PIC sit on the CP's desk. Resume 1 was received and nothing further heard from the applicant. Resume 2 was received along with recommendation letters, squadron patches, and bi-weekly phone calls to check the status by the applicant. A bottle of Wild Turkey was even sent to the CEO by the applicant.

Guess who gets the interview call?

Hey, its your life man, you run it how you want to, just don't b1tch when it does not turn out how you wanted it to

 

[flyer4hire]

I worked for an airline that had a similar pilot selection process as FEDEX.

Several applicants who exceeded all the minimum experience requirements were unable to secure an interview after several years of trying.

In the end the court sided with the pilots who filed the lawsuit. The fact that the company relied heavily on internal recommendations was seen as a form of discrimination.

The company agreed to hire all those named in the lawsuit and those named were also given a date of hire that represented when they would have been hired if not discriminated against.

The company no longer accepts internal recommendations of any kind as a result.