FedEx and Pilots reach TA !!!!

[Babylon]

Ok Fox Hunter - am I missing something then on contributions? If max is 44k and they get 12% in their B plan, you'd have to make over $350K to even reach the limits - I could care less for the kind of whore that works to make that much.

Purple Tail - what kind of special credibility are you giving to the Wall Street Journal? They are no different than any other media outlet except that they will ALWAYS be pro-big business and anti-labor (you and me).

 

[Babylon]

one more thing and a question

- inflation rates 2003-2005 were low but still at 2.3, 2.7, and 3.4 respectively. FEDEX is getting on average 3%/yr in this contract (the 9% initially includes the last 2 years of negotiations). That makes the raise more or less negligible - it's a COLA. My military pay goes up at least that high annually with very little fanfare. When you count the increases in health costs, the pay doesn't make it up. We need significant rig changes to make any real pay raise based on "the incredible profitability of FEDEX that the pilots have been a part of".

Now the question - in the past it was conventional wisdom that long contracts were bad - you needed to change them as the company did better. If the comany is in the hurt locker it will change the contracts immediately as has been shown recently with commercial airlines. If this retro pay is more of a "bonus" then why in the world are we doing a short contract? When UPS continues getting pay raises, with the associated B fund inputs long after our contract has gone into ammendable stage - we will be the losers here. I agree with VaB here - if it's just a bonus, then what a waste. Take a look at the company's earlier proposal on the ALPA web site - I'm hoping there are some drastic improvements in scope, work rules, retirement health care and regular health care otherwise it seems like not much has been accomplished.

 

[FoxHunter]

Ok Fox Hunter - am I missing something then on contributions? If max is 44k and they get 12% in their B plan, you'd have to make over $350K to even reach the limits - I could care less for the kind of whore that works to make that much.

Well if you contribute to your 401k, OSP, Sick Leave buy back you get to that number.

Why do you think all these large corporations are dumping their defined benefit plans? It takes a huge amount of money to fund.

 

[ptarmigan]

Once again, people caring only about themselves. That high B fund is great, IF you have a long ways to go, and IF your investment choices did well (a bigger "if" than you might think!). Yeah, let's reduce it to the UPS mix, THAT would be fair to those 50 and up, right? True colors showing here, I think. ME ME ME!

 

[PastV1]

Your B Plan contributuons by the company stop once your income hits the IRS threshold of $170K for this year and $175K for 2007.

Past....

 

[FoxHunter]

Once again, people caring only about themselves. That high B fund is great, IF you have a long ways to go, and IF your investment choices did well (a bigger "if" than you might think!). Yeah, let's reduce it to the UPS mix, THAT would be fair to those 50 and up, right? True colors showing here, I think. ME ME ME!

Everyone looks at the issue from where they sit, just human nature. If we were stupid enough to change the A plan to 1% like UPS in return for a 12% B fund contribution it would in fact have little effect on the older guys since you would not lose the years x 2% only the future years, which are few. The junior, young guys would be shooting themselves in the foot. I suggest they speak to some experts on pensions and they will find out that this extra 5% is worth only a fraction of the 1% per year that they think will be wise to give up in return for the increased B fund. Then is you add the fact that you would be restricted by the 415(c) limits it only gets worse.:crying:

 

[Purpled]

Once again, people caring only about themselves. That high B fund is great, IF you have a long ways to go, and IF your investment choices did well (a bigger "if" than you might think!). Yeah, let's reduce it to the UPS mix, THAT would be fair to those 50 and up, right? True colors showing here, I think. ME ME ME!

Whoaaa, nobody here...that I can see...has suggested getting rid of your due compensation. If such a transition from bit 'A' plan to big 'B' plan were to happen, it wouldn't without due compensation to the senior/older guys.

 

[Purpled]

Everyone looks at the issue from where they sit, just human nature. If we were stupid enough to change the A plan to 1% like UPS in return for a 12% B fund contribution it would in fact have little effect on the older guys since you would not lose the years x 2% only the future years, which are few. The junior, young guys would be shooting themselves in the foot. I suggest they speak to some experts on pensions and they will find out that this extra 5% is worth only a fraction of the 1% per year that they think will be wise to give up in return for the increased B fund. Then is you add the fact that you would be restricted by the 415(c) limits it only gets worse.:crying:

Fox,

You are absolutely correct that the A fund is a much better deal than the B fund, even if the B fund were enhanced. The problem is that so many A plans have disappeared recently that folks are coming to realize that a bird in the hand is worth...well you know. If you calculate the value of your A plan over your expected lifetime to be X dollars, you'd be a fool to pass up a check for X/2 at retirement.

Fred himself said that most companies would be dumping the A plan in the future, and I have little confidence that it will still be around 10 years from now, much less 25 or 35. I'm not sure how the new pension reform will help us out, but I have high confidence that the companies will find a way around it.

You seem like a pretty savvy guy financially, but I think you've got your blinders on here to the real possibilities of what could happen to our(your) retirement. I hope not, since it's just about the best thing I've seen in the business world for labor, but I'm just not convinced.

 

[Laughing_Jakal]

Waste of time

Like mission planning without all the details.....plan early, plan often.

Be patient and let everything come out in the wash.

You guys suffer from premature ejac..er...calculation syndrome.

 

[skykid]

Fred himself said that most companies would be dumping the A plan in the future, and I have little confidence that it will still be around 10 years from now, much less 25 or 35. I'm not sure how the new pension reform will help us out, but I have high confidence that the companies will find a way around it.

Absolutely. I calculate my A plan to pay out exactly zero in 20 or so years when I retire. If I was within a few years, I would maybe count on the minimum that the PBGC pays out when they take over a companies plan. I would much rather have a bigger B plan that I can have control over.