legaleagle
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2002
- Posts
- 136
You know what, I was making the point, that I thought that it was a maneuver that was way too close to the ground, the opinion about which was reiterated by 3 inspectors, two ATC controllers, and about 3-6 other ATP rated pilots that saw it while on the ground. The inspectors, as well as a couple of the other Lear pilots, that I talked with, each had over 1000 TT of LEAR TIME, and two had over 2500 TT in LEARS!
You know, furthermore, just because we are pilots, and they are FAA, I am frankly a little sick of the constant bitching and moaning in this forum about how the FAA are the bad guys. I have now worked on the side of the FAA, and yes, like every agency, they have their faults, and less than dynamic personalities,and they have come up with some doozies, in the enforcement realm. But, they have a job to do, I had a job to do. I investigated the legal basis and the merits of the investigation of the inspector, and suggested an appropriate sanction. Sometimes the final action was less than suggested, because it was a first time offense, or it was inadvertent. But, as long as they aren't arb and capricious in their enforcement, if you did something wrong, you should be sanctioned. THAT GOES FOR ME TOO!
Third, as to whether or not it was safe, I do not have to be a Lear pilot to know that a barrel roll at 200-400 ft, in any plane, outside of an airshow, with a highly trained aerobatic pilot, or a military pilot in the appropriate plane, is stupid. While it is not a complete indication that it is unsafe, that's why there are two regs that speak directly to it. No aerobatics in D airspace, and recovery of aerobatic maneuvers must be done above 1500 AGL. For all of you f*&^ups who think that I am an ass for thinking so, I'll be more than happy to litigate the accident against you. I personally think that plaintiff attorneys and the Bar Association have killed a number of industries in the U.S. through seeking INCREDIBLY EXCESSIVE REWARDS, but that does not excuse the fact, that if someone chooses to do something illegal and unsafe, there should be repercussions in the way of suspensions or penalties. THIS APPLIES FOR ME TOO!!
I would say that 95%+ of the pilots in this forum are extremely safety conscious and try to abide by the rules. My post was not directed at them. Only to those, like this particular Lear pilot, that thought a stunt like this on occasion would be cool. TO CLARIFY, THE POST IS NOT DIRECTED AT THOSE THAT ATTEMPT TO FLY SAFELY!
As for the radar and tower tape, the controller told me that his fellow controller said, "Holy S*&$, did you see that?". That will be on the cab tape. Second, radar tracks are available and while it will not show a barrel roll, it will shows change in altitude or horizontal track on the climb afterward. The latter of which obviously is not illegal unless he was not cleared through the B airspace above.
Finally, for all of you career pilots out there. Let me ask you an ethical question that applies to me as well. Apparently, the fact that an industry professional lied in his statement to the FAA is of no concern. Something as blatent as a barrell roll is hard to cover up. If you are my employer, you really want me pulling stunts like that with a couple million dollar jet and then completely fabricating the truth in the face of very convincing evidence? You want a PIC, an FO,and two nurses that will lie about it? Seems like a reckless disregard for the owners wellbeing and property. Who's going to pay the deductible when that guy hits the ground. Not him. Who's going to lose revenue? Not him. Who's gonna get sued? Not him. The company will lose, and our premiums will go up. Even if I had a momentary laps of reason and did a similar maneuver that close the ground, around the proximity of the busiest GA airport on the East Coast, I would not deny it if asked. I would take responsibility. I have thought many time about becoming a part of this admirable profession. And IMHO, I think that the fabrication on the part of the PIC and the FO is the sign of pure, spineless, chicken s*&^s.
I am not trying to lecture anyone or sound better than anyone. Nor am I purporting to be more experienced than a 10,000 tt pilot. I am merely trying to relay my experiences as a commercial pilot and as a former law clerk for the FAA (WHICH WAS EYE OPENING-I too used to bash the FAA from time to time.), in order to convince those who do want to try something like this, to think twice. That's it.
You guys work really hard, for pay that is substandard, and hours that are sometimes unbelievable. I am on your side, I just was amazed at the stupidity of this one act.
CB
You know, furthermore, just because we are pilots, and they are FAA, I am frankly a little sick of the constant bitching and moaning in this forum about how the FAA are the bad guys. I have now worked on the side of the FAA, and yes, like every agency, they have their faults, and less than dynamic personalities,and they have come up with some doozies, in the enforcement realm. But, they have a job to do, I had a job to do. I investigated the legal basis and the merits of the investigation of the inspector, and suggested an appropriate sanction. Sometimes the final action was less than suggested, because it was a first time offense, or it was inadvertent. But, as long as they aren't arb and capricious in their enforcement, if you did something wrong, you should be sanctioned. THAT GOES FOR ME TOO!
Third, as to whether or not it was safe, I do not have to be a Lear pilot to know that a barrel roll at 200-400 ft, in any plane, outside of an airshow, with a highly trained aerobatic pilot, or a military pilot in the appropriate plane, is stupid. While it is not a complete indication that it is unsafe, that's why there are two regs that speak directly to it. No aerobatics in D airspace, and recovery of aerobatic maneuvers must be done above 1500 AGL. For all of you f*&^ups who think that I am an ass for thinking so, I'll be more than happy to litigate the accident against you. I personally think that plaintiff attorneys and the Bar Association have killed a number of industries in the U.S. through seeking INCREDIBLY EXCESSIVE REWARDS, but that does not excuse the fact, that if someone chooses to do something illegal and unsafe, there should be repercussions in the way of suspensions or penalties. THIS APPLIES FOR ME TOO!!
I would say that 95%+ of the pilots in this forum are extremely safety conscious and try to abide by the rules. My post was not directed at them. Only to those, like this particular Lear pilot, that thought a stunt like this on occasion would be cool. TO CLARIFY, THE POST IS NOT DIRECTED AT THOSE THAT ATTEMPT TO FLY SAFELY!
As for the radar and tower tape, the controller told me that his fellow controller said, "Holy S*&$, did you see that?". That will be on the cab tape. Second, radar tracks are available and while it will not show a barrel roll, it will shows change in altitude or horizontal track on the climb afterward. The latter of which obviously is not illegal unless he was not cleared through the B airspace above.
Finally, for all of you career pilots out there. Let me ask you an ethical question that applies to me as well. Apparently, the fact that an industry professional lied in his statement to the FAA is of no concern. Something as blatent as a barrell roll is hard to cover up. If you are my employer, you really want me pulling stunts like that with a couple million dollar jet and then completely fabricating the truth in the face of very convincing evidence? You want a PIC, an FO,and two nurses that will lie about it? Seems like a reckless disregard for the owners wellbeing and property. Who's going to pay the deductible when that guy hits the ground. Not him. Who's going to lose revenue? Not him. Who's gonna get sued? Not him. The company will lose, and our premiums will go up. Even if I had a momentary laps of reason and did a similar maneuver that close the ground, around the proximity of the busiest GA airport on the East Coast, I would not deny it if asked. I would take responsibility. I have thought many time about becoming a part of this admirable profession. And IMHO, I think that the fabrication on the part of the PIC and the FO is the sign of pure, spineless, chicken s*&^s.
I am not trying to lecture anyone or sound better than anyone. Nor am I purporting to be more experienced than a 10,000 tt pilot. I am merely trying to relay my experiences as a commercial pilot and as a former law clerk for the FAA (WHICH WAS EYE OPENING-I too used to bash the FAA from time to time.), in order to convince those who do want to try something like this, to think twice. That's it.
You guys work really hard, for pay that is substandard, and hours that are sometimes unbelievable. I am on your side, I just was amazed at the stupidity of this one act.
CB
