Favorite words of a new Lear 24 F/O

[flyincheap]

I agree with your post about legal eagle, however I stick to my point, I guess I did not make it clear, lets keep the insults and degrading comments to ourselves. Voice your opinion, judge what is right and wrong if you must, but why do we have to insult when there is a difference of opinion. Yes, these guys were wrong, and legal I commend you for saying strongly how you feel. I want to be in safe skies at all times too. We are heading hopefully to the same place, it is the roads we choose to live our lives by that makes this such a great place. Thanks again

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Wait a second...I don't get it; there's a post with more than 50 replies and not ONE of them concerns that whole Delta/DALPA/Comair/ASA/RJDC/Scope thing?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Re: One caveat however.

At the end he pulls up, and at about 200-400 ft, he initiates a 360 barrell roll.

I wonder what the recovery procedures are for an engine failure at this altitude while inverted.

There's a time and a place, and this wasn't it.

Cat Yaak and ATR-DRIVR...I agree, I'd take issue with the pilot if that was my wife on board. I wonder how many may have died on the ground had he plowed into some houses or a busy road?

 

[CSY Mon]

Hmm, kind of tricky situation:

Ya see a drunk driver stumbling to his car, not able to open the door or start it on the first few attempts....Ya take his keys away, or ya call the cops...Either way, ya probably saved lifes as the drunk should not be on the road.

Ya see a hotshot Lear driver do a roll just after take-off and ya call the cops.
Same thing..?

It would be hard to turn in a fellow pilot for just about anything.

Been there, done that: Flown with a thick fog of alcohol in the cockpit after the other guy(s) stayed up too late and had too much fun.

Seen guys bust minimums, duty time regs and such.

There is a strong feeling of not ratting on the other guy in this business.

On the other hand...This roll deal after t/o with revenue pax onboard shows a clear lack og judgment, airmanship and maturity.

As I bystander I would not call the feds, nature and the FAA tower cab folks would take care of it...
Washing my hands?
Yes and now.
The guy needs to loose his ticket:
He may be a sharp stick, in his mind anyway, but with the judgement and disipline of a 12 year old.

If I did not call the cops, he may kill somebody the next time.

Sitting on the fence on this one I guess.

Legaleagle did the correct thing from a legal/moral point of view as his phone call could indeed save the next load of nurses and commuters on the freeway when LR pilot screws up the roll and stalls/spin into the pavement and/or the schoolbuses.

As for the tone of the message?
Well, low key would be perhaps be the better solution...It sounded like legaleagle was blowing his horn slightly for having turned in the idiots, etc.

The fact however is that this Lear hot-shot driver should not be allowed to drive a wheel-barrow or anything else.
What is his next stunt gonne be?
Snap roll on short final?
Scoot across the runway in front of departing heavy?
(If ya time it right and ya have enough power, ya can do it.)


Laywers being scum?
Well, O.J. Simpsons is for sure on the wrong side of bars because of expensive lawyers..Justice not served.
Nuff said.

 

[captainv]

flyincheap -

good to hear from an authority!

>For the one who stated a Lear losing one engine loses half the thrust Hmmm, let me think back, not the whole truth. Study a bit more, not putting you down just take a look at another book on this.

feel free to refresh my memory, i stopped studying the book when i stopped flying the airplane. i believe the guy i was responding to has no experience in the airplane so i wasn't shooting for book numbers. one motor vs. two motors running - you'll have about half the available power, no? sure, a little residual as it winds down, but if you've got some numbers, i'd be fascinated to know...

>Ole the old V1 cut. I give you this the Lear 25 at 82 degree's and sea level takes right at 186 lbs of rudder pressure to maintain directional control with little or no, hmmm another bad move aileron input.

my point was that the V1 cut can be a handful to an applicant trying out for a charter job on a typical corporate runway, especially if they have limited Lear experience. i'd prefer to leave those maneuvers to the sim. i remember a LR-25 departing PIT on thanksgiving a few years ago. relatively new FO was flying and they determined the captain gave him a V1 cut on takeoff. drifted off the runway, cartwheeled, both died. my point was you can reset a sim.

i wonder how the rudder pressure compares to the RJ, the RJ just feels more docile. i'll ask at my next recurrent. we flew a 25D with the Century III wing. Flew a Mark II a few times, main thing i remember is the higher ref speeds...

 

[flyincheap]

All great points I was a check airman for many years and wow did I get ice veins Thanks for the sims Probably let me live longer.

The v1 cut, hmm no experiece with RF Does it have hydraulic boost.
The lear 20 series does not have any hydraulics on flight controls which makes it tougher.

Stay safe

 

[7B2]

Hello,
legaleagle apologized 3 times already about the wording in his 1st post, so stop referring to that.

Again, we all must agree (give up your ego for once) he has prevented a future f*ck-up.

This Lear Captain doesn’t deserve to be in the position he is in.

 

[Jmmccutc]

I have no bones to pick with the FAA, always been treated

same here one of my flight instructors' wife is a cle fsdo employeee and she has always helped me out

 

[enigma]

Edited to retract any words I might have said that would in any way support legaleagle. I do think he was correct in reporting the aileron/barrel roll, but his posts here continue to prove him quite childish.

enigma

 

[ThomasMore]

(Deleted by the poster)

 

[CDVdriver]

Ok,now that things have quieted down a little..the dust has settled...LOL
Guess you should have been there..OLDER model Citation not the 12 seat version, clearly more pax then seats.
And oh I did a preflight this morning..it sat on the ramp all day so it's still good to go..what kind of attitude is that?
I have seen people preflight a Citation and this wasn't it.
But never mind I'm just a dumb CFI what do I know?

Anyway....interesting discussion about this whole whistle blowing thing.
I feel the more we self regulate (as an industry), self police if you will the less interference we need from the outside..FAA,TSA, DOT the whole alphabet soup.
We're not some teamsters union protecting everybody as long as you're with the "in-crowd"...I hope.

 

[350DRIVER]

(Deleted by the poster)


smart move T

3 5 0

 

[legaleagle]

I am now headin to bed.

I just want to say. This has been a long ride. I wrote this post this morning, and have been monitoring it all day. It is now 01:00 A.M. EDT. To be honest, I am tired. I take all of your comments very seriously, because I want to learn from various opinions. In fact, I have learned more on this board, from the beginning of my private license, than any CFI. I truly wanted to help. That's why the personal inflammatory attacks were extremely frustrating, and made me use language I would have preferred not to.

But, now that almost 2000 people have read this thread, and 100 have responded, I feel satisfied to some degree that 2000 pilots, most of whom will carry passengers or cargo on a day to day basis, may think of this topic or others like it, and one day when advancing the throttles, save a couple of lives. Seems a bit idealogical, but, my guess is it might actually come out of the cobwebs at the right time.

Good night. And no hard feelings. I know that many of you guys are some of the best **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** pilots out there and have good intentions. My initial tone may not have helped things, but it was unintentional. For the others, that wanted to turn this into a flame, almost as bad as the PFT debate, well, let's hope that you live long enough to get a chance to become one of the best.

Ciao!

CB

 

[501261]

Guess you should have been there..OLDER model Citation not the 12 seat version, clearly more pax then seats.
And oh I did a preflight this morning..it sat on the ramp all day so it's still good to go..what kind of attitude is that?
I have seen people preflight a Citation and this wasn't it.
But never mind I'm just a dumb CFI what do I know?

Older model Citation so what was a 500, ISP, 550, SII, V, CJ? Don’t know do you, yet you think you know enough about Citations to call his FSDO. I for one am sure glad that jacka$$ like you are around to make sure the skies are safe.

For your info, even the “oldest” Citation a 500 can be fitted to carry 9 passengers (2 pilot seats, 2 rearward facing, 4 club, and a potty seat), and be safely under gross with 2 ½ hours fuel. Here’s a picture of an older one, Ace, http://www.controller.com/listings/...id=1238118&etid=1&OHID=1074167&setype=1&nh=0. Notice you’ve got 9 seats.

 

[UpNDownGuy]

Thank you...

Legaleagle, you are exactly correct. You did exactly the right thing reporting them; now you should continue to do the right thing and testify against them. Any douchebag that thinks it's cool to do a roll that close to the ground doesn't need a license. I AM a professional pilot, and I don't want idiots like that sharing my airspace.
I was going into SMX (Santa Maria, CA) many years ago, and I saw a Cub doing aerobatics in the pattern. I questioned the tower about it, and they replied "Oh, that's Ernie...he does this all the time...don't worry". I was not happy, but let it slide. It wasn't 6 weeks later I saw an article about the "tragic loss" of "Cub Ernie". Stall/spin in the pattern. What a suprise. They went into great detail about his "legendary prowess" with a Cub. I was beyond disgust, with myself as much as anyone. I should have reported the moron, and the tower controller as well.
I learned a lesson, and you all should too...safety first, or look for a different profession.

 

[Ty Webb]

A "barrel roll", huh?

Sounds to me like the guy who was doing the reporting didn't even know the difference between a barrel roll and an aileron roll.

Not sticking up for bad decision making (if it happened at all) but you seem like you aren't much of a qualified observer.

How about this- the next time you taxi out to the active at an uncontrolled airport, and then fire up your radio for the first time as you're taking the runway (my pet peeve) I turn you in for careless and reckless and let you spend the next two years fighting for your certificate?

Again, no one here is advocating doing what you think you saw, but the fact that out of all the people who allegedly saw it, you are the one that initiated this whole thing makes you look like a sanctimonious piece of crap.

 

[Vector4fun]

Ya know what I think is kinda ironic about this whole thread?

My experience only;

Guy does a high speed low pass down the runway in his Swift let's say, and tops it off with a "victory roll" at the departure end, half the guys on the field think he's hot sh!t.

Same guy a week later accidently cuts one of 'em off on final, causing a go-around, and the same folks are ready to beat the hell out of him or call the Feds.

 

[Chunk]

I'm not sure who the bigger A-hole is...the lear driver(s) or legalb*tch. Dude, if the guy really rolled it (I doubt his story) in front of the tower, they'll report it. Don't worry your pretty little head over it. You sounded sooo proud of yourself in your initial post. Of course, IF it's true, then the lear guys should get their collective asses kicked. I question legalboy-wonder's credibility. He seems to throw his resume around a bit too much...

 

[jbDC9]

Wait a second...I don't get it; there's a post with more than 50 replies and not ONE of them concerns that whole Delta/DALPA/Comair/ASA/RJDC/Scope thing?

AND, there's no Mesa, Skywest, or Chautaqua bashing, nothing about Jesus, God or chemtrails, and I don't think one post had the phrase "lowering the bar" or "race to the bottom".... I think I'm on the wrong board, this just can't be flightinfo without all that stuff.

Here, let me point it in the right direction.

Your Mom's a SCAB!!!!

Alrighty then, I feel better. Carry on.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

Ty Webb
A "barrel roll", huh?

Sounds to me like the guy who was doing the reporting didn't even know the difference between a barrel roll and an aileron roll.

What's the difference between a "barrel roll" and an "aileron roll"? Never done aerobatics and it didn't come up while flying my C152 during the private.

Ty Webb
How about this- the next time you taxi out to the active at an uncontrolled airport, and then fire up your radio for the first time as you're taking the runway (my pet peeve) I turn you in for careless and reckless and let you spend the next two years fighting for your certificate?

Would you like to to declare over the radio whenever I move from where I am? Now 55 ft down Taxiway Alpha, 60 ft down Taxiway Alpha, 65ft down Taxiway Alpha, ect? Unless you cross another runway, why would you bother making a call? The aircraft that need to use the radio don't want to know that you are now turning into the runup area.

Also, there is a difference between reporting someone for an unsafe practice and harrassment.

Vector4fun
Guy does a high speed low pass down the runway in his Swift let's say, and tops it off with a "victory roll" at the departure end, half the guys on the field think he's hot sh!t.

Comparing a "victory roll" at low altitude in a swift with no pax and in a Leer with a FO and pax is like the difference between playing russian roulette with a pistol and a 2,000 lb bomb. One I don't give much about because it is darwin at work, the other can kill others that I actually give a d4mn about.