Favorite words of a new Lear 24 F/O

[ShawnC]

What's the difference between a "barrel roll" and an "aileron roll"? Never done aerobatics and it didn't come up while flying my C152 during the private.

From the Acro Server:

Rolls
There are four different types of rolls:

• Aileron Roll
• Slow Roll
• Snap Roll or Flick Roll
• Barrel Roll

Aileron Rolls
Aileron rolls are flown with the rudder and elevator in the neutral position during the roll. The aileron is fully deflected in the direction of the roll. This is the easiest of the rolls to fly.
The aileron roll is started by pulling the nose up to 20 - 30 degrees above the horizon. The elevator is then neutralized and the aileron fully deflected in the direction of the roll. The controls are maintained in that position till the roll is completed. After the roll is completed the nose is usually 20 - 30 degrees below the horizon.

The aileron roll is not a competition maneuver.


Slow Rolls
Slow rolls have to be flown normally on a straight line (exception is the avalanche). The roll rate has to be constant and the longitudinal axis of the plane has to go straight. This requires constantly changing rudder and elevator control inputs throughout the roll. Hesitation or point rolls include stops at certain roll angles. The number on the base of the roll symbol describes the number of points the roll would have if it were a 360 degree roll. Allowed are 2 point, 4 point and 8 point rolls. The fraction on the arrow of the roll symbol describes what fraction of a full roll is to be executed. If no points are specified, rolling is done without hesitations. If no fraction is specified, a roll symbol that starts at the line specifies a half roll (see description of the Immelman). A roll symbol that crosses the line specifies a full roll (first figure). The second figure shows the symbol for 2 points of a 4 point roll (adding up to half a roll) from upright to inverted flight.

Snap Rolls
Snap or flick rolls also have to be flown normally on a straight line. A snap roll is similar to a horizontal spin. It is an autorotation with one wing stalled. In the regular snap, the plane has to be stalled by applying positive g forces. In an outside snap, the plane is stalled by applying negative g. In both cases rudder is then used to start autorotation just like in a spin.

Barrel Roll
The Barrel Roll is a not competition maneuver. I The barrel roll is a combination between a loop and a roll. You complete one loop while completing one roll at the same time. The flight path during a barrel roll has the shape of a horizontal cork screw. Imagine a big barrel, with the airplanes wheels rolling along the inside of the barrel in a cork screw path. During a barrel roll, the pilot experiences always positive G's. The maximum is about 2.5 to 3 G, the minimum about 0.5 G.

The good doctor does a much better job at describing them then I do.

 

[Simon Says]

Why do lawyers wear suits that don't have pockets?

Because they always have their hands in someone elses pockets.

lol.


What is black and brown and looks good on a lawyer?

2 Dobermin Pinchers.

hehehe I crack myself up!

Anyone else?

 

[CDVdriver]

Ok for the last time..you should have seen it.
How can you keep judging a situation that you never witnessed?
You're totally missing the point here Mr John Doe ( and others)
Like it matters that I do not remember the exact type.
Sombody posted a link with a 9 seat Citation....what I need to find a pic of a 7 seat Citation to prove my point?
And it's not the (lack of) preflight either, just simply the fact he took off with more pax then seats.
And sure you can hold a kid<2....not REQUIRED to strap it down are you?
Well you're not REQUIRED to make radio calls at a non towered airport either.
Not very safe but then again it's not required right?
Oh by the way since we're splitting hairs here,Ty Webb, approaching a non towered airport at 4-5 miles/min that makes 240-300knots ,isn't that a tiny bit fast for operations below 10.000'?
Once again let me apologize and humbly bow my head..I am not worthy of the attention of you SKYGODS that hold eternal wisdom.......

 

[ibaflyer]

I can't talk like this or act like this in the real world, so, the childishness of you and many of these posters in here is like going to the playground and watching 5 year olds. It's really amusing. The sad part of it is, that sometimes, after playing with 5 year olds, you find yourself sinking to their level.


I apologize for acting like a child. And with that, you have seen the last of my comments to this thread. Happy Flying to those who get the underlying issue.

OUCH!!!

Gee, here I was just trying to be funny and I get assulted with words that could make a Marine blush. (Seems that the statements were removed)

You , are the one that refered to "doing it while flying" I just thought that I would make a funny. "Lighten up Francis"

I would have thought that someone with your education would utilize words not found in the gutter. As for the personal attack on my father, If that makes you feel better, I hope that it worked. You sir, know NOTHING about me, my family or my relationship with my father.

I may not have a 160,000.00 education but I DO have class!

 

[JohnDoe]

SDVdriver:

You mentioned three things in your origingal post as to why you decided to call the FAA on this guy:

1) Too many passengers for seats available

2) Lack of what you determined to be the "proper" preflight

3) The mom holding the baby in her lap and the inability to wear the shoulder harness.

Apparently, now you say it is only the lack of passenger seats. Ok, then answer my original question.....Did you actually look into that aircraft and see how many seats there were on this particular aircraft?? If not, how do you know there were not enough? You seem to be basing the assumption on your knowledge (or as we have seen, lack thereof) of citations.

Now you say that its not required to strap in a child less than 2, but is it safe? You'll get no arguement from me there. But it was per the regs. So how can you justify calling the feds on this guy for that?

Its not about the preflight? Then why did you include it in your original post as a reason why you called the feds?

 

[TonyC]

A "barrel roll", huh?

Sounds to me like the guy who was doing the reporting didn't even know the difference between a barrel roll and an aileron roll.

Not sticking up for bad decision making (if it happened at all) but you seem like you aren't much of a qualified observer.

How about this- the next time you taxi out to the active at an uncontrolled airport, and then fire up your radio for the first time as you're taking the runway (my pet peeve) I turn you in for careless and reckless and let you spend the next two years fighting for your certificate?

Again, no one here is advocating doing what you think you saw, but the fact that out of all the people who allegedly saw it, you are the one that initiated this whole thing makes you look like a sanctimonious piece of crap.

Sanctimonious is comparing improper radio usage with an airplane being upside down at 200' off the ground.

Call it a barrel roll, or an aileron roll, or a death roll, or an idiot roll - - it doesn't matter. The Lear driver was wrong, and Leageleagle was right, even if he DIDN'T know what to call it. You don't have to be versed in Acro to spot stupidity of that magnitude.

 

[Axel]

Assuming this is actually true

Irresponsible, immature and dangerous. Get the stupid pilot out of the sky immediately and permanently; before he kills someone.

 

[Axel]

Case in point

Date: 15 OCT 1987
Time: 15.28
Type: Dassault Falcon 10
Operator: Falcon Jet Corp
Registration: N121FJ
Msn / C/n: 192
Year built:
Engines: 2 Garrett TFE731-2-2A
Crew: 2 fatalities / 2 on board
Passengers: 1 fatalities / 1 on board
Total: 3 fatalities / 3 on board
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: Rancho Murieta, CA (USA)
Phase: Cruise
Nature: Demonstration
Departure airport: Rancho Murieta, CA
Destination airport: San Jose Municipal Airport, CA (SJC)
Remarks:
Sales demo flight. In flight loss of control by the pilot flying while performing an intentional low level aerobatic maneuver (a left aileron roll at 600ft).
PROBABLE CAUSE: "In flight loss of control by the pilot flying while performing an intentional low level aerobatic maneuver."




Source: (also check out sources used for every accident)
NTSB

<http://aviation-safety.net/database/countdescription.php?var=19871015-1>

 

[Jmmccutc]

when i left to go out drinking last ngiht, i think there was arround 50 something relpies, and when just now woke up at noon it's up to 115, rather popular thread...

 

[501261]

Ok for the last time..you should have seen it.
How can you keep judging a situation that you never witnessed?
You're totally missing the point here Mr John Doe ( and others)
Like it matters that I do not remember the exact type.
Sombody posted a link with a 9 seat Citation....what I need to find a pic of a 7 seat Citation to prove my point?

No, you’re missing the point. Using the previous examples what you thought was an unsafe operation, could just as easily have been a perfectly safe, legal operation. But then you decided to be a hero and call the FSDO, and therein lies the problem.

With the FAA’s system of administrative law that Citation driver is guilty. If you where able to get in touch with an inspector and he decided to start an EIR, there are only 5 possible outcomes. Four of them are:
A. Letter of notification of re-examination
B. Letter of investigation
C. Letter of correction
D. Letter rescinding remedial training eligibility

Which of those would you like to have if the local “Ace of the Base” CFI called the FSDO and stated that he though you where doing something unsafe, even if that CFI’s only Citation experience has been watching someone else preflight.

I can’t tell you how much safer I feel knowing that the local “Ace of the Base” is there to protect me. Yes, you’ve hit a nerve, you see with this company we routinely fly into some pretty out of the way places, and I’ve heard some good one from these “Aces.”

Are you sure you shut the engine down its still spinning

- Yes, the fan will rotate in the wind.*He actually woke me up from a sound sleep in the lounge to ask me this.

You’re nav lights are still on

- That’s SOP when the APU is on.

You’re leaking a clear liquid that doesn’t taste like anything from your belly

– Yes, the drip drain is open so that I can put some more ice into the refreshment center

We don’t let school planes fly when there’s over 20 knots of wind

- Good for you.