Farquaad fiddled while OneSky burned

[exagony]

I'm not speaking for the union as i don't know inner workings and speak to my P2P rep on a regular basis. My P2P rep explained to me that the union wasnt necessarily against the VSP, they just wanted a LOA to cover it. Ricci and mgt won't negotiate with the union, they want it their way or nothing. This is not how union/company relationships work. The company can't just set policy for pay benefits schedules etc without the consent of the union. The union has a say in such policies and how they are implemented. Should the IBT just allow the company implement the VSP without negotiations it would set the precident in court that the union will allow the company to set pay and benefits without the consent of the union. Funny how the union is fighting for 1 year of pay and recall rights for those furloughs, you forgot to mention that part in your post. The company is the one who refuses to negotiate in good faith which is a blantant violation of federal law. Ricci continues to knowingly and willingly break federal law. A fellow crewmember remarked that Kenn Ricci has been sued in Federal Court something like 15 times in the past 15 years and has lost every time. mach94 appears to be a troll.

 

[Mach94]

Should the Union take away $70,000 from those who were furloughed to prove a point about making the company sign an LOA? NO. They shouldn't have.

And the serious part that people seem to not comprehend is that a voluntary separation agreement is just that. Voluntary. Separation. You don't get to "come back" when you take a VSP. From anywhere. That is the whole point. You agree to permanently leave, they agree to give you money and help send you on your way, removing the obligation the company had of having to bring you back. The company was willing to buy those seniority numbers and not have the obligation to have to recall those pilots, and those pilots taking it know it and agree to it. But no. The Union is too greedy to let that transpire...

If the Union were to get their way, then the "VSP" would not be a "VSP", it would be an expensive vacation, as all the pilots who would take it would be the senior pilots at the top of the seniority list (because the LOA demanded it be done by seniority) who will take 12 months off and still make over $100K. Great. People move up and upgrade to replace those leaving, right? Insert cost of upgrading people flowing up. What costs? Well guys in the Legacy or any Captain leaving cause vacancies and people may have to get a new type rating, or at a minimum possibly move from or to the Phenom from the Beechjet. And flood the training department with upgrades, IOE, etc. Yes. Those are real costs. But wait. The company is still really reducing, and still has no need for all those guys. But thanks to the LOA, after 12 months, due to the LOA, the company is forced to take those guys back, at the top of the list making over $100k again. Insert recurrent training costs there. And yes, now they may be overstaffed and forced to move those guys who moved up in one fleet to go back down to where they were in the other fleet. More training costs. And the end result to the company is all they did was double their training costs with zero salary savings for that year, and still ended up furloughing.

Yeah, that's right, now they have to furlough again because they still don't need all those extra bodies. End result: Senior guys got 12 months off paid vacation. Bottom guys got a 12 month delay to their eventual pink slip. And the company paid a tremendous amount of training costs they wouldn't have had to if they'd simply furloughed to begin with. And the company still has all those guys at the top of the list still making all that money, and they only got rid of the cheaper bottom of the list guys who are now, finally, furloughed. If the Union had not interfered, all the furloughed pilots would have 12 months of pad to find another job that more than likely will not be but about half what they made at Flight Options, and others, higher up the chain making over $100k would have also had an opportunity to leave and take a severance, saving the company salary money in the long run. And no one got hurt. The furloughs were going to be furloughed anyway, and those who took the VSP who weren't furloughed now feel better off as well. Union dumbasses. No company would ever agree to all that, and the Union knows it. They burned the furloughs for a cause they could never obtain. At a cost they should have never been willing to pay... our overall solidarity and therefore the end result is eventual decertification, and rightfully so. The Union deserves to be decertified after this debacle.

It makes zero sense for the company to give pilots 12 months of paid vacation with an obligation to take them back. What the hell is the point of that? How does that benefit the Company in any way? No company would do that, when what they are trying to do is reduce the work force. The Union screwed it up for those who were furloughed, and those about to be, and anyone with half a brain can see that. All in the name of "they didn't negotiate it with us." Sorry, that does not fly as a valid reason to cost our pilots who would be on the streets anyway, 12 months' pay. The union got greedy, and they took away a large sum of money from the furloughed pilots by demanding something no company, anywhere, would agree to. And the company isn't done furloughing. And the Union played right into Ricci's hands. Idiots.

The Union has lost a lot of respect from a lot of us. All the furloughed pilots, and if you are not in the top 40% of today's existing flight options seniority list, you should be very worried you are the next round of layoffs, and thanks to the Union's stupidity, you could have got a year's severance and now you may not get squat. Unless, hopefully, the Union loses in Court. And I for one never thought I'd be rooting for the Company in a case against the Union. Times change. When I'm furloughed, I'd like my severance. And the Union does not have my back on this. Their agenda is no longer mine.

I'm pissed. For my friends who needlessly lost their VSP if the union wins in court, and for myself, when it's my turn to get that eventual pink slip.

 

[doh]

One more time: post count...troll...do not feed.

 

[Mach94]

In other words, don't give me more fuel to be right. Now there's a troll post. ;-p

 

[Club ORD FO]

....nevermind. I already posted once this month.

 

[doh]

Anyone notice the desperation? Almost as bad as phildo on the yam...hmmm...

 

[Bjtdrvr]

Actually management could still have negotiated and given 12 months of pay as the union requested but still stuck to their guns about no recall rights. That would be true negotiation and then none of what you are talking about would be relevant BUT the company outright refused to even consider negotiating anything! That is the true KR only now he feels emboldened because of the lack of support! Wake up peeps! That is exactly what he has done at Flex from the beginning! He does whatever he wants to do and says what he thinks you want to hear!

 

[doh]

^^^this^^^

 

[993_Pilot]

Actually negotiating is the whole point of "negotiations" with the elected representative bargaining agent for this pilot group. Apparently Troll Mach94 doesn't get that. It is really immaterial whether you are among the furloughed or simply a KR troll, the scenarios you paint make a lot of ASSumptions about how this will all play out in the courts/NMB, and if I were a betting man, I would to lay down money that the IBT will win far more of the grievances that they have filed than KR and his posse of yes men. Ultimately, time will tell.

So, if you aren't a troll Mach94, and really do hate Kenn Ricci and all that he stands for, go ahead, put it on record and list the reasons for us.

 

[Mach94]

Yeah, that's fine, you can think that. Isn't it interesting that anyone who doesn't follow the party line and regurgitate the 1108 leadership's wishes is instantly a troll, a KR supporter, and a general all around bad person. Hmmm. If you're not with us you're against us. That is tyranny. Newsflash. The 1108 leadership works for us. Not the other way around. And yes, they make mistakes. And when they do, they should be pointed out. And this is what happens when you try to do that. You get ostracized and painted as the bad guy. Paying attention, Flexjet?

That response just proves another point though, that as long as you get yours, who cares about those under you on the seniority list. However. If you are Flexjet guy, you probably are salivating at the idea of SLI being tied up in court long enough to have a decertification vote and keeping the Flight Options pilots who are fighting Kenn Ricci to the death (and it's obvious who will win that battle) from bloating their seniority list with their going out of business job.

Pilots are already standing on the street holding their pink slip saying "but I supported the Union and did everything they asked us to." Many more are about to follow. Probably within a month. And for no other reason than just to spite management and try to "force them to negotiate" the Union is attempting to take a year's pay from their families. Not the Company, THE PILOTS. Yes. That is wrong. Yes. I'm pointing it out. And you try to paint me as a "troll" for doing so. Shame on you. And everyone's watching.