Falcon 50 series questions

[PA31Ho]

Owner is looking at upgrading from the 800A. Spoke with him and he initially wanted an 800XP but now is rethinking that he wants something a little more useful than going from an 800A to an 800XP. I've been doing some comparisons and from what I have found using several websites including jetsearch.com and jetbroker.com the Falcon 50 strikes my attention.

Can anybody attest to the numbers posted on these websites? They seem rather low when comparing it to the 800A. It doesn't seem that much more expensive per hour, etc. Also, what are the differences between the EX, -4 and -40? I'm assuming the -4 meaning 731-4 upgrade?

Also, I welcome other opinions as far as airplane upgrade under the $8mil mark that won't be an extraordinary fixed/variable costs.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Owner is looking at upgrading from the 800A. Spoke with him and he initially wanted an 800XP but now is rethinking that he wants something a little more useful than going from an 800A to an 800XP. I've been doing some comparisons and from what I have found using several websites including jetsearch.com and jetbroker.com the Falcon 50 strikes my attention.

Can anybody attest to the numbers posted on these websites? They seem rather low when comparing it to the 800A. It doesn't seem that much more expensive per hour, etc. Also, what are the differences between the EX, -4 and -40? I'm assuming the -4 meaning 731-4 upgrade?

Also, I welcome other opinions as far as airplane upgrade under the $8mil mark that won't be an extraordinary fixed/variable costs.

Thanks in advance.

An old Falcon is an expensive Falcon...more so than most.

Also, has your boss sat in a DA50?...its very small. Not really an upgrade from a Hawker.

 

[TMMT]

I agree, the cabin of a 50 over an 800 is not much of an upgrade.

 

[con-pilot]

Bottom line is that a straight Falcon 50 can do everything a 800XP can do. The 800XP cannot do everything a straight Falcon 50 can do.

As far as a 50EX, even as depressed as the market is you'll not find a used EX anywhere near $8 million USD. I'm not positive, but I don't believe you can find a -40 under $8 million USD as well. But hey, it never hurts to look.

A 50 will cost more to operate, how much I can't say, but either you go for performance or cost. Either way, both aircraft are good.

 

[SabreFlyR]

Bottom line is that a straight Falcon 50 can do everything a 800XP can do. The 800XP cannot do everything a straight Falcon 50 can do.

As far as a 50EX, even as depressed as the market is you'll not find a used EX anywhere near $8 million USD. I'm not positive, but I don't believe you can find a -40 under $8 million USD as well. But hey, it never hurts to look.

A 50 will cost more to operate, how much I can't say, but either you go for performance or cost. Either way, both aircraft are good.

I was talking to a broker last week about a Lear 45 we are interested in and as we were talking airplanes he mentioned he had a line on a 50EX for $7M. BS or not I don't know.

 

[G4G5]

Probably not a stretch, just spoke to a friend. They returned their leased G4 and purchased a 10 year old G4 for $10 mill

 

[rice]

Bottom line is that a straight Falcon 50 can do everything a 800XP can do. The 800XP cannot do everything a straight Falcon 50 can do.

As far as a 50EX, even as depressed as the market is you'll not find a used EX anywhere near $8 million USD. I'm not positive, but I don't believe you can find a -40 under $8 million USD as well. But hey, it never hurts to look.

A 50 will cost more to operate, how much I can't say, but either you go for performance or cost. Either way, both aircraft are good.

Not so sure about that $8mm mark for the 50 EX. Just saw an early s/n 900B go for $10mm and s/n's newer than #100 can be had for around $12mm. That tells me that a smart buyer could possibly get the deal of the week on a 50 EX for just under $8mm. But then again, what the hell do I know???
BTW, go for the 50, whatever variant, it'll kick the snot out of the Hawker eight ways from Sunday!!!!!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I believe the numbers....anything used is selling for rediculous prices.

However, if you still need to sell your Hawker - good luck....you will have to give it away.

 

[BoilerUP]

You can get an early serial G150 for at or just over $8 real large these days...cabin is a bit shorter in length than your Hawker but it's faster, has more range, more cargo space, better runway performance, and substantially lower DOCs than anything else with ~3000nm range.

But it does have boots instead of a hot wing, so its got that going for it! :laugh:

 

[ultrarunner]

Owner is looking at upgrading from the 800A. Spoke with him and he initially wanted an 800XP but now is rethinking that he wants something a little more useful than going from an 800A to an 800XP.

You really need to define what "a little more useful" means???

 

[con-pilot]

I was talking to a broker last week about a Lear 45 we are interested in and as we were talking airplanes he mentioned he had a line on a 50EX for $7M. BS or not I don't know.

Well, I wish I could say that I was surprised about that price, but I've seen some really low price purchases of some very expensive aircraft. The last 50EX that I know of that sold was a 2004 model with about 1,500 hours TT sold for under $14 million USD, quite a bit under 14 by the way.

That was less than a month ago. So it is possible that there may be a high time early serial number 50EX out there that someone has to dump.

I can tell you one thing, if you are a cash buyer right now, you would be really surprised what you can buy way under average retail used price.

Good luck and have fun shopping.

 

[semperfido]

I can tell you one thing, if you are a cash buyer right now, you would be really surprised what you can buy way under average retail used price.

.

Just like the stock you could have bought in Late Feb early March. Timing is everything.

 

[PA31Ho]

You can get an early serial G150 for at or just over $8 real large these days...cabin is a bit shorter in length than your Hawker but it's faster, has more range, more cargo space, better runway performance, and substantially lower DOCs than anything else with ~3000nm range.

But it does have boots instead of a hot wing, so its got that going for it! :laugh:

How well do the boots work? I can't fathom why they would make a boot on a 2001 airplane, unless you're Cessna. Not enough power from the engines for hot wing I presume?

 

[BoilerUP]

I've never heard any operational complaints about the boot system on IAI airframes, but despite their effectiveness its plain that many pilots dislike the thought of boots on a jet. What can one say other than its a legacy wing in its design, not unlike the Hawker with its TKS wing. At least with boots you don't lose any climb performance (or have to source TKS on the road)...plus least the G150 boots are painted silver to look like hot wings

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Having flown a few of the fine IAI products with boots.....it's actually one of the few good items on those POS airplanes!!!

Very little loss of power when you want it most (example climbing in the mid-high 20's?)

I'd rather climb through the crap wx than look cool on the ramp.

 

[ultrarunner]

How well do the boots work? I can't fathom why they would make a boot on a 2001 airplane, unless you're Cessna. Not enough power from the engines for hot wing I presume?

Because the 150 was built on top of the Astra type certificate. And when you're essentially making a home-built it starts getting MASSIVELY expensive to do a re-design of ANY system, as opposed to just putting together the existing systems.

There is actually no better example of this philosophy than the Lear 20/30/50/60 series.

You don't have this issue with clean-sheet designs, like the follow-on G250 vs. the G200.

Ultra

 

[Floyd94]

I'd rather climb through the crap wx than look cool on the ramp.

You'd be doing both in the 50. imp:

 

[CDogg]

Hey NK -

Tell him to splurge for a Challenger 300.

Hope you're doing well man.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

You'd be doing both in the 50. imp:

I have never flown a regular 50, but I assume if a 900ex gets bogged down with the ice on so does a 50...If a business jet cant go striaght to FL410 full fuel its underpowered. I know its not ideal to fly like that endurance wise, but it usually gets you above the weather. If I wanted to camp out in moderate turbulence doing .76 at FL340 with the ice on in South America at night, I'd buy a 731 Falcon..

I will say - Falcon finally got it right by ditching those engines on the 7X.

 

[BoilerUP]

50EX can't go straight to FL410 following a max weight takeoff?