"Failed" Strike at ASA?

[michael707767]

I really don't think we will ever know what will happen if ASA strikes. It won't happen. Delta will BK papers in hand if it gets right down to it, and will use the BK court to prevent a strike. Delta may well be in BK before you get the chance......I have no doubt they will head there to get rid of the pilots pension.

 

[captain caveman]

It didn't take a strike last time. Management is doing a fine job of forming a pilot group that is becomming more uniformily pissed off. It is not an illegal job action to enter a write up in the discrepancy log when it occurs no matter where it occurs! It is not our job to perform the resets required to "clear" these problems.

CP told me today that Willie has been authorized to do some extreme $hit in January and that the CPs are unauthorized to overide his assignments. Get ready to accept assignments with protest.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Who's going to get the E170s?

Ask your MEC, but I think you already know the answer ( or you are very out of the loop ).

You are going to get the E-170's under your jets for jobs protocols, so you can fly them at an alter ego airline for 15 to 20% less than Connection pilots flying CRJ700's. LOA46 provides a "place marker" in the contract stipulating J4J, but the real details are contained elsewhere. Based on what we know now, the US Air furloughees get "super seniority" over your furloughees - but neither of us expect that to be the final arrangement, do we?

Once again, ALPA allowed us to be used to whipsaw each other. Delta furloughees will be compensated less than me for flying a much nicer airplane. The fleet plan used to call for the elimination of the MD88 and 737-200/300 fleet before the end of the decade. I do not know how the fleet plan may have changed, but surely even the disciples of the Delta MEC can see where they are being led. Welcome to the inside lane on the race to the bottom.

It is d@mn hard to negotiate a contract to improve this profession while being undercut in all corners, particularly from your own union. Like fly4food wrote, there are so many of us who are so fed up that we will vote with our feet. If Delta gets shut down in the process, good. This alter ego love fest between management and ALPA must end. Just as the Eastern pilots stood for what was right in ending Lorenzo's pillage of Eastern, perhaps the ASA pilots could do the right thing and send Delta into the history books.

And there is one big difference in the qualifications of ASA and Delta pilots. The HR folks at Airtran are the same people who fought the good fight at Eastern and remember how Delta treated them. If I'm not mistaken, Delta only hired 2 Eastern pilots - both scabs.

The World truly is round.

P.S. Ifly4food - Told you so. Anyone think that there was no link between LOA46 and the E-170's going outside ALPA to an airline that has no representational rights within ALPA? If the result is just about the same as what happened at Northwest, it is not a coincidence. Getting shut out of the next generation of jets is very bad news for ASA pilots.

Our next contract is going to be about as relevant as CC Air's if ALPA does not stop this alter ego business. You know support our negotiating efforts, but we are just arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The 40 seat RJ has a lot worse numbers than a 737-200.

 

[michael707767]

You are going to get the E-170's under your jets for jobs protocols, so you can fly them at an alter ego airline for 15 to 20% less than Connection pilots flying CRJ700's. LOA46 provides a "place marker" in the contract stipulating J4J, but the real details are contained elsewhere.

There is no J4J with CHQ and you know it. Preferentiall hiring will be offered, but even if a furloughed DAL pilot is hired, he goes to the bottom and does not have to fly the E-170. In fact, based on his seniority, I bet a furloughed DAL guy hired at CHQ will not be on the E-170, not for a couple of years anyway, and then as an F/O.


The real details are elsewhere? Where? Why don't you enlighten us all as to the details of the J4Js deal? I would love to hear it.

 

[CF34-3B1]

It is d@mn hard to negotiate a contract to improve this profession while being undercut in all corners, particularly from your own union. Like fly4food wrote, there are so many of us who are so fed up that we will vote with our feet. If Delta gets shut down in the process, good. This alter ego love fest between management and ALPA must end. Just as the Eastern pilots stood for what was right in ending Lorenzo's pillage of Eastern, perhaps the ASA pilots could do the right thing and send Delta into the history books.

This seems to be a growing sentiment among the ASA pilots.

If DCI is to continue as the poster child for management whipsaw, and the race to the bottom, a lot of our guys would rather see DAL CH11 - CH7 than be a part of it.

What makes the situation so dangerous is given the current financial situation at DAL, an ASA shut down would have a much more dramatic impact than the CMR strike did, and unlike the EAL pilots, most ASA guys can replace their income selling cars.

Given the current attitude of management towards settling the contract, and the ever expanding portfolio, I'd say management (and not just ASA's) is enormously under estimating the level of frustration and anger among the ASA pilots.

Pretty dangerous thing to do when you're dealing with a bunch of guys who'd get a raise if they went to work for Home Depot.

 

[~~~^~~~]

There is no J4J with CHQ and you know it. Preferentiall hiring will be offered, but even if a furloughed DAL pilot is hired, he goes to the bottom and does not have to fly the E-170. In fact, based on his seniority, I bet a furloughed DAL guy hired at CHQ will not be on the E-170, not for a couple of years anyway, and then as an F/O.

Preferential hiring in exchange for airplanes is J4J. What do you call it? Worse, you guys are giving up Delta longevity to fly the airplanes at sub standard pay rates. That Company "gimme" ranks right up there with buying Beech 1900 time at Gulfstream.

The "preferential hiring" is with Republic ( not CHQ, but I never wrote CHQ ) and it will be on the E-170 because Republic only operates that type. Republic was set up as an alter ego for furloughed mainline pilots and US Air's do have super seniority. But if you think the Delta MEC was dumb enough to sign off on this without having something to give their constituents at least the same protections as US Air pilots while flying Delta code - then you have even less confidence in them than I do.

Here, why don't you spend some time on their web site. I think you will like the E-170 even more than the MD88, shame it doesn't pay anything & it is Teamsters, not ALPA. But at least you can still hold on to your "Mainline" gig and ALPA National does not have to worry about more "Connection" pilots voting to rid the union of its lousy leadership team. After all, there are not that many $450,000.00 plus flying jobs around any more and Duane Woerth has one.

http://www.republicairlines.com/aircraft.asp#

CF34-3B1 : You Sir, are exactly correct.

 

[michael707767]

The "preferential hiring" is with Republic ( not CHQ, but I never wrote CHQ ) and it will be on the E-170 because Republic only operates that type. Republic was set up as an alter ego for US Air's furloughed pilots and they do have super seniority. But if you think the Delta MEC was dumb enough to sign off on this without having something to give their constituents at least the same protections as US Air pilots while flying Delta code - then you have even less confidence in them than I do.

CF34-3B1 : You Sir, are exactly correct.

Ok, you may be correct in one regard. I was told it would be CHQ, not Republic, operating the E-170 for DCI. I'll have to check on that one. Either way, a true J4J deal would have our guys flying all or a set number of the E-170 seats, and in the Captain seat like the USAirways guys got. Preferential hiring is a far cry from J4J. At least as our own MEC explained it to us, it does not gaurantee jobs to our furloughed guys. There is nothing saying who will be hired or in what order, and there is nothing saying how many guys have to be hired as part of preferential hiring. CHQ or Republic, whoever operates the 170, may well be able to hire a very small number of furloughed DAL guys and satisfy that requirement.

The preferential hiring is for anyone who agrees to operate some of the additional 70 seaters. In this case it may be Republic. Next time, it may be ASA or CMR. In that case, what I said would apply, the furloughed DAL guys would in fact go to the bottom and would fly what their seniority will hold, not a 70 seater. I agree with you in one regard. We did not do as well for our furloughed guys are USAirways did. Being hired to the bottom to fly even an E-170 is not worth it, and I bet very few guys will do it.


As far as confidence in my own MEC, I probably do have less confidence in them that you, because I have zero confidence in them. I'll bet you will be a captain on a 100 seat jet flying under the DAL code long before I will.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I'll bet you will be a captain on a 100 seat jet flying under the DAL code long before I will.

I hope not. Delta flying has to be done by Delta pilots - period. If our union officials do not recognize this, then it is time to replace them.

By the way, my apologies for the insulting post, I cleaned it up.

Regards,
~~~^~~~

 

[michael707767]

I hope not. Delta flying has to be done by Delta pilots - period. If our union officials do not recognize this, then it is time to replace them.

By the way, my apologies for the insulting post, I cleaned it up.

Regards,
~~~^~~~

No apologies necessary. I don't take anything I read here personally, and I hope you don't either.


I fully realize right now our scope would prevent what I said. But, as has been pointed out, that can change. I think when the time comes my MEC will fold on the issue of outsourcing 100 seaters.

 

[sgwabd]

My $0.02 is striking is premature. a company Sick day would be a better message. It only costs the company one day of lost revenue plus a few unhappy customers and lets "them" know we are serious.

 

[CF34-3B1]

My $0.02 is striking is premature. a company Sick day would be a better message. It only costs the company one day of lost revenue plus a few unhappy customers and lets "them" know we are serious.

A "sick out" is an illegal job action.

A strike is not.

As far as a strike being premature, we are many, many months away from one anyway.

 

[Freebrd]

>>>captaincaveman wrote:CP told me today that Willie has been authorized to do some extreme $hit in January and that the CPs are unauthorized to overide his assignments. Get ready to accept assignments with protest.<<<<

CPs have been 'unauthorized' to override anything for quite some time now. Why do you think Joe A. and Bill H. quit? Bring it on Willie, and what you bring will endure the pilots to management I'm sure, ......not. We can take it but it'll cost the company a lot of goodwill.

 

[701EV]

Bill H is no longer a CP?

When did this happen?

701EV

 

[79%N1]

Exactly what kind of extreme sh!t can Willie be expected to pull? There are FAA rules/contract that govern most of what scheduling can do with a pilot. Not sure what could be so extreme other than junior manning?

 

[shamrock]

We can take it but it'll cost the company a lot of goodwill.

There's not enough goodwill left for it to be a concern to the company.

I didn't know Bill H quit either, but then again I haven't seen him around so it would make sense.

 

[CF34-3B1]

there was a CP Vacancy posted on the website

 

[VABB]

Militancy is fabulous, BUT good luck getting released from the NMB. Trust me I speak from exprience. Expect to be worn down in recess till it is not worth it anymore. Special thanks to the charlatan Bush voters who claim to care about the bottomless pit this profession is headed towards.

Who was in office when the American Airlines pilots were forced not to strike. Was it Clinton? Was he a Republican or a Democrat?

 

[Tim47SIP]

What about DH?

I noticed Doug has a CR7 line this month. How long has he been out of the CP business? I have been out of the net on MLOA. Thanks.
Willie is not the only problem. Mike M also has a heck of an attitude towards junior pilots. He has heartburn with to much time off (more than 10 days). Hopefully this will all be fixed by the time I get back in 2007! Now that is a stretch, don't ya think

 

[VABB]

Okay, I'll admit it: I just had an ugly picture painted in my head by a certain former EAL striker, and I need someone to hold me and tell me everything'll be okay.

I've noticed that since the informational picketing began in ATL a while back, my fellow ASA pilots have become more and more militant. It seems everybody I talk to is "ready to walk."

The question that was put to me is this: if the ASA pilots are released and walk, what's to stop the company from cutting the strikers off at the knees by taking ASA's assets and scabs--and let's not kid ourselves; there will be scabs--and rolling them into the rest of DCI (i.e. Comair), thus eliminating us troublesome ASA pilots altogether?

Is such a scenario worth worrying about? Or is this unlikely?

I think there is a lot to worry about.

First, scabs. Yes, some will cross intially, then some later. Some will come from off the street. Looking at the current job market, there are still a lot of qualified pilots out there who would rather be flying jets than working at Home Depot. And looking at the conditions of the majors and the long-term prospects of the industry, I don't think too many people will be concerned with being called a scab. It's not like it will come up in the UAL interview anytime soon.

Second, Delta Air Lines. If they have too, they can drop ASA like a hot potato. They could, in theory, file Ch. 11 and use that to get rid of ASA. They would simply tell the courts it is part of their reorganization plan in an effort to streamline to be more efficient.

Delta could distribute the void in flying to other regionals, to include SkyWest and Comair. SkyWest could stand to get a lot of ASA's equipment and routes, and being non-union they could be a viable candidate. Also, look at the other regionals out there who are looking for work. The carriers operating under US Airways Express would also be good candidates. If Delta had to, they might be interested in code-sharing with Independence Air. As a last resort, Delta could add some parked aircraft of it's own to pick up some of these flights. And as even last-last resort, Delta could cut ASA, take the assets, and start up another carrier.

There is no shortage of carriers out there who could pick up ASA's flying, whether it be through a code-share or a long-term agreement.

Third, pilot shortage. Finding pilots would not be a hard job for Delta, especially with a lot of RJ qualified people on the streets already looking for work. Also, can you imagine how many people would cross a picket line at ASA if Delta were to go down to ERAU and recruit people right out of school for an FO position? They would stampede all over each other to get there. Personnel will be found.

Finally, I think a short-term strike COULD be beneficial. I say that only because it would get the airline's attention. Who wants negative publicity, especially after what happened last week with Comair and US Airways. A long-term strike could have negative consequences though. Personally, if that were to happen, it's likely Delta would cut it's losses and run, leaving ASA out to dry.

 

[shamrock]

But how quickly could these plans be implemented? Seems to me that even a short strike could be disasterous for Delta and that they would need to get the ball rolling on these plans well in advance to be able to pull off the transition of flying.

Emotionally, I have been on the bandwagon about shutting the place down, but realistically, I haven't wanted it to happen because I'm lazy and I've settled in to this (sad?) lifestyle. Then I printed out a year-end report on my financial situation. I could have estimated how much I made in my head, but seeing the numbers in black and white was an eye opening experience. I still don't want the place to shut down, but if it happens, well, life will go on!