Facts and Opinions on Emirates Airlines

[colejer]

Yes, I know this should probably be in the Foreign Carriers section, but who reads that section really. Hopefully this helps some guys out there who have to make a decision.

Facts about Emirates.
Current Fleet
B777 - 57 with another 43 on order
A330 - 21
A340 - 18
A350 - 70 on order with another 50 options
A380 - 58 on order (first one comes mid 2008)

Current upgrade time on the 777 is three years, probably will be a little longer in the future. Current upgrade on the Airbus is a closer to 5 years. Contrary to what some people think, upgrade is seniority based. You just need a certain amount of time/experience with the company to upgrade. It's similar to a regional airline policy of you having to have a certain amount of hours or time with the company to upgrade.

1st year FO pay is between 6000 and 7000 take home. Captain is between 10000 and 12000 take home a month. I'm prety sure a 3rd year FO makes the same as a 1st year FO. There is just a FO or CA pay. Training pay is 5600 dollars a month take home.

Retirement scheme - There is a mandatory 5 percent of your salary put in a retirement fund. The company adds a additional 12 percent of what your salary is and puts it into your retirement fund

Profit share - last year it was one month salry.

Company provides housing and pays for all utilities or they give you 30000 Dollar a year and you go find your own housing. Single FO gets a 2 bedroom condo, Married FO with no kids gets a 3 bedroom condo. Captains or married FO's with kids get a house.

They give you a 19000 intrest free loan to buy a car, if you want something more expensive the banks loan you the extra at normal intrest rates.

You get picked up, driven to work then dropped off at your house when you are done with a trip in Audi station wagons.

42 vacation days a year
No medical Insurance Premiums
Kids education is covered up to 80 percent (I think) and only for three kids (I think), obviously I'm single.

If I am wrong on any of these facts please correct me.

Opinions on living in Dubai and how the company treats you.

I was intrested to see what it was going to be like being an American living in a Middle Eastern Country, and honestly nobody cares where you are from. I have been treated the same by everyone.

Overall Emirates is a good company, they are struggling with thier growth and having to deal with things on the move. Therefore do not expect to be treated like you are working at Southwest or probably most majors in the US. Unions are illegal here, and if the company wants to make a change they do it and they do it quickly. I get the overall feeling that the company will do what is best for them and you have no say so in it all. I can honestly say that I don't think I have been treated all that well. (I had some accomodation problems)

You will find training is completely different than the American way. It's more like self study. Not once did we sit in a classroom and discuss systems with an instructor. It was all Computer based trainging and exams to make sure you know it. You had to show up at the simulator and know almost everything before you get there, then they grade your performance for that day. They say it's changing to more instructing than checking, time will tell.

Crazy hot in the summer and LA weather in the winter.

Overall there is ton of opportunity and a chance to get in early. You do have to put up with the company and knowing that you are not what is most important.

I think this job is best for young guys that have enough time to make a decision on if they like it here, and if they don't then go back to the US and still have a good carrear there, or stay here and retire extremely weathly. It is also good for guys that are ending thier carrear that want a quick upgrade to make some quick cash.

This post is getting way to long, if you have some questions feel free to ask. I hope this answers some questions for some of you.

 

[B747FR8DAWG]

Ek

Yes, I know this should probably be in the Foreign Carriers section

You're right

I'm prety sure a 3rd year FO makes the same as a 1st year FO

Huh, no pay raise, where do I sign upuke:

 

[On Your Six]

Colejer,

Thanks for the informative post. Very detailed. Clearly EK is in need of pilots to facilitate their amazing growth. I view EK more favorably now than I did in the past. That said, I have spent time over in Dubai and here are some of my impressions about Emirates:

1. You have no control over your career given that the government controls your job. There is no union to protect your interests. Some upgrades or decisions could be completely arbitrary and you can't do much but accept them...

2. You will get to fly great airplanes. I believe anyone aspiring to fly the A380 someday for EK should do it from the A330/A340 side of the fence. Someone told me the Boeing pilots will likely remain Boeing pilots - but hey, I'll fly a 777 no problem.

3. Most of your flying will be long-haul with some regional flying in between. You must be prepared to fly 7+ hour flights (some pilots would just prefer short-haul). You will spend a lot of time flying.

4. Dubai is getting more expensive every day because of the huge influx of capital and people. Sure, the compensation and benefits package sounds good, but everyday items are getting pricier.

Clearly Emirates has to improve overall conditions in order to continue to attract quality pilots as they grow. 50+ A380s alone will require many experienced pilots and strong comp/benefits packages will be needed to keep those airplanes flying. It sounds like EK is getting better, but people should definitely visit Dubai and consider what life will be like in a Middle Eastern country before they make the move - they need to make INFORMED decisions.

 

[jhill]

I've got a buiddy that went to M'Rats in July. Said he is now looking at truck driving schools. Flat out hates the company and flying a 777 is not making up for a miserable life in the UAE

 

[vortilon-x]

Colejer,
It sounds like EK is getting better, but people should definitely visit Dubai and consider what life will be like in a Middle Eastern country before they make the move - they need to make INFORMED decisions.

It actually was once a great airline to fly for. Things have changed a bit and conditions are not as good as they were. Plus prices are on a steep increase in Dubai. Having said that, I think its still a good career move, if you don't mind living in the Middle East.
Unfortunately Dubai is also not as free a one might think. Shopping malls are nice and tidy and you will be able to find your Starbucks coffee plus everything is kinda artificial. Definitly a good idea to stay there for a few days and soak up the atmosphere.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Uuuhhhh......desert still sucks.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

After living and flying in the UAE for 2 years, I can testify that it's not as rosy a deal as it sounds...I just heard a lot from a friend who recently quit M'Rats...

-No Union...
-No Work Rules....
-Canadians and Brits run the show (as check Airmen) and don't like Yanks!!.....
-Locals let you know that you are "just visiting"...
-No pay raises....
-No seniority....
-No legs under 2 1/2 hours...all long haul...

Think again if you are headed in that direction

 

[colejer]

Here are some other facts about how Emirates works.

Pilots are placed in one of five bid groups on joining, and the bid groups cycle each month. For example group one bids first this month, then group two bids first next month and so on. There is seniority within your bid group. Also everyone does one month of reserve. If you are in the top two bid groups you get what you want, otherwise its a little harder.

Pay is reevaluated every April, ,traditionally it goes up though theoretically it could go down I assume. Being that inflation was in the teens this year it needs to come up.

Switching aircraft fleet from boeing to airbus and vice versa is possible but very hard to do. Company doesn't want to spend money on training. Most likely time to switch would be upgrade time.

Here are some questions you should ask yourself before coming here.

Can I live in the desert? Spend some extra time here on your interview. Bring your wife with you on the interview, she could make your life great or miserable. I see it happen a lot where the wifes are not happy and people quit.

Ultimately ask yourself can I handle not being treated as good as I think I should for the opportunity to fly great aircraft around the world for decent money. You will find lots of guys here that are pissed off about how the company has treated them and are just waiting for a better job to come around. Most of them are still here, because finder a better job is hard to do.

In response to one of the reply's above. It is not true that the locals let you know that you are just visiting. I have many local friends and they are super friendly. There are some bad seeds like in all cultures that give a population a bad name.

There is seniority flat out, with some exceptions like all companies. There are pay raises almost every year. Like stated above pay is reevlauated every April, however it is true that there are not pay raises for longevity.

 

[skypine27]

One thing I noticed about Emriates:

They do NOT fly you to the interview. I had my interview scheduled in DXB, and assumed they would put me (free of charge) on one of their flights from JFK to DXB (I lived near NYC at the time).

They said (via email) of course not, how could they do a thing like that?? I then asked about a discounted ticket in lieu of a free one, and I may as well have been asking for Plutonium. I took this as a sign to not go to the interview.

Every us airline I have interviewed with (Great Lakes, Mesaba, Skywest, ATA, JetBlue, Southwest, Continental), except one; (FedEX) has flown me to the interview, space available, from one of their cities.

Ironically, I ended up working for the one US airline that DIDNT offer to fly me to the interview.

But like the guys said in previous posts, overseas can take some getting used to.

 

[colejer]

In the past they did not fly people out for the interview. They are flying people out now positive space. I interviewed in July and got Business Class to Dubai and back. Tickets are economy upgradeable to business. They do not pay for your wife to come out.