FAA won't back training requirements

[captain007]

My best story by far when I was at the regionals....


Flying into Chicago on approach my FO checks on with the app controller. And I quote... "We have information zebra, requesting full stop."

Now after almost pissing myself, I made a small comment on what to say and not to say. It was busy and not the time to start questioning him on his aviation education. Then he checks on with tower and again requested the full stop. Got to love the guys at ORD. They came back with a, "your cleared for the option."

Radio skills only got worse and flying wasn't any better. His 4 day trip was cut short by 3 days and was back in IOE by the end of the week. A friend told me this individual was let go a short time after I left, for multiple safety violations.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Let's say you were daydreaming and suddenly the stick shaker went off. It's not even your leg. What is the first thing you would look at? Where is the first place your hand would jump to?

I've made many, many mistakes but I'm sick of hearing about the tail stall retort regarding the Buffalo crash. Basics are basics. If either pilot could correctly answer my two questions then we'd never know who they were.

My memory is a bit foggy, but my recollection of recurrent ground school discussions at XJ in the Saab was a few hours of guys arguing about whether boots were better as anti- or de-ice, whether ice-bridging existed and this NASA video. The message I got was the tail stall is coming to get you - look out for "the snatch"!

It was as if no other stall could happen in icing conditions - just the tail stall. I don't remember them pressing home the point of the shaker/pusher not occurring in a tail stall, either. A big point.

It sure seems like they were thinking tail stall, to me.

 

[Golden Falcon]

I thoroughly comvinced the Capt. assumed tailplane stall, and reacted correctly..that training video needs to be complemented by one explaining more thoroughly the specific differences between the two...

 

[rigger]

I thoroughly comvinced the Capt. assumed tailplane stall, and reacted correctly..that training video needs to be complemented by one explaining more thoroughly the specific differences between the two...

Ahhhhhhh sorry, but I could go with the premiss(???) but HE HELD THE DAMN STICK IN HIS CHEST THE ENTIRE TIME!!!!! If as you say he thought it was tail ice (I content he wasent smart enough to know tail ice from a slushy drink ice) and it did not work he would try something else anything else stand on his damn head chanting Galec proverbs if he had too.....that is the difference from a true professional that knows his craft and this guy......if you know your stuff then you keep trying till you die or fix it....most of us fix it in time! Unfortunately for the poor pax he was not capable THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE!!!!

 

[AceCrackshot]

I agree.
It is pretty sad when the race to the bottom has to be stopped by blood of innocent passengers.

If by "sad" you mean "completely predictable," well then, yes.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Ahhhhhhh sorry, but I could go with the premiss(???) but HE HELD THE DAMN STICK IN HIS CHEST THE ENTIRE TIME!!!!! If as you say he thought it was tail ice (I content he wasent smart enough to know tail ice from a slushy drink ice) and it did not work he would try something else anything else stand on his damn head chanting Galec proverbs if he had too.....that is the difference from a true professional that knows his craft and this guy......if you know your stuff then you keep trying till you die or fix it....most of us fix it in time! Unfortunately for the poor pax he was not capable THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE!!!!

I wouldn't be so quick to assume what he did or didn't know. There are many accidents attributable to a mindset that focuses on one possible problem at the exclusion of all others. The F/O's lack of experience didn't give her anything to add to solving the problem.

I would bet that the Colgan Captain, being a more mature pilot that started later in life would be less impulsive than to simply ignore all previous training and haul back on the stick as a panic reaction.

 

[Lear70]

I would bet that the Colgan Captain, being a more mature pilot that started later in life would be less impulsive than to simply ignore all previous training and haul back on the stick as a panic reaction.

On the surface, I would agree with you,,,

but then,,,

there's the matter of his pi$$-poor training record.

I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt in this case. Unfortunately, we'll never know what he was thinking... would be helpful for a LOT of reasons; future training of every pilot out there thinking about this situation is at the top of that list.

 

[igneousy2]

I looked at the animation...I think it's pretty clear he fixated on the attitude indicator and his altimeter and omitted the asi from his scan. He actually climbed in the first few mili-seconds. I doubt the tail stall hypothesis. I think he recognized the autopilot got disconnected and was trying to keep altitude and the wings level. I bet the fact that the shaker and pusher were going just added to the confusion. The animation reminded me of teaching students stalls in a 152 when they failed to add enough right rudder during power-on stalls. They would lock the controls to their chest and watch the altimeter unwind in disbelief as the nose dropped and the wing whipped over without a clue what to do even though you just had a full review of the spin ground training before you got to the practice area.

It's pretty clear to me that a few hundred hours of flight instruction would have been of great benefit to the Colgan crew.