FAA issues final rule on SIC type rating

[Rick1128]

Same checkride in respect to the manuevers performed, except a type ride is an FAA checkride(more paperwork) and you must perfrom every task to standards on the first attempt.

An SIC checkride allowed for some retraining and retesting to be done during the checkride (something like...up to 2 manuevers as long as safety of flight wasnt a concern) Example you lose 120 feet on a stall(100 foot loss is standard), so at the end of the checkride the company checkairmen goes back, you practice a stall and get some criticism on it. Then he says now show it to me again, and he evaluates your second attempt, if it is to standards he checks the manuever as passed.

Actually, that is not entirely correct. According to the FAA's Order 8400.10 SIC's are not required to perform holding and they only have to perform 1 percession and one non-precesion approach. A single engine approach is not required, though a single engine landing is. Also there is no V1 cut requirement, but the SIC must successfully conduct an engine failure after takeoff.

Next, the 8400 allows a Company Check Airman to retest failed items for either crew position.

Now from your profile it appears that you are flying for a regional airline. You company policies may differ. The 8400 allows the operator to set their own standards as long as they meet or exceed the standards in Order 8400.10.

 

[minitour]

Actually, that is not entirely correct. According to the FAA's Order 8400.10 SIC's are not required to perform holding and they only have to perform 1 percession and one non-precesion approach. A single engine approach is not required, though a single engine landing is. Also there is no V1 cut requirement, but the SIC must successfully conduct an engine failure after takeoff.

Next, the 8400 allows a Company Check Airman to retest failed items for either crew position.

Now from your profile it appears that you are flying for a regional airline. You company policies may differ. The 8400 allows the operator to set their own standards as long as they meet or exceed the standards in Order 8400.10.

wait, wait, wait.....

so the guy in the right seat doesn't have to do a V1 cut or a SE approach...and it's a test til you pass thing? Is that for both seats (how I interpreted what you wrote...haven't read 8400...)?

So...what happens if the CA passes out just before V1 and as the FO calls out V1 the left side dies and the field is right at minimums....do we in the back die?

-mini

 

[Flying Illini]

wait, wait, wait.....

so the guy in the right seat doesn't have to do a V1 cut or a SE approach...and it's a test til you pass thing? Is that for both seats (how I interpreted what you wrote...haven't read 8400...)?

So...what happens if the CA passes out just before V1 and as the FO calls out V1 the left side dies and the field is right at minimums....do we in the back die?

-mini

Not sure how it's done in the airlines but...
at Flightsafety or SimuFlite whether you're there for SIC or PIC, you are trained on and perform ALL maneuvers to standards. Holds, V1 cuts, SE appch to landing, everything...BUT you just aren't tested on them on the final checkride if you are only there for SIC.


On another note...I guess we're all going to have to specify SIC or PIC on our types in the "Aircraft Ratings" section of our profile.

 

[minitour]

Not sure how it's done in the airlines but...
at Flightsafety or SimuFlite whether you're there for SIC or PIC, you are trained on and perform ALL maneuvers to standards. Holds, V1 cuts, SE appch to landing, everything...BUT you just aren't tested on them on the final checkride if you are only there for SIC.

Roger...I think I get it. Probably not, but that makes more sense anywho.

-mini

 

[Flying Illini]

Roger...I think I get it. Probably not, but that makes more sense anywho.

-mini

You're a smart guy, Mini, you got it.
If you were to observe two pilots throughout the course of their sim training, you wouldn't be able to tell who was there for PIC or SIC as they both are doing the same maneuvers to the same standards. If you observe the oral, you wouldn't be able to tell who was there for PIC or SIC as they both go through the oral (together some or all of the time). Only when you are watching them on the checkride, would you be able to tell who was there for PIC and who was there for SIC as the SIC would have a few less tasks to be tested on.

again, that's how it is on the corporate side, not sure about the airline side of it but I'm sure it's similar.

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is this. Most airlines allow t/o's from the right seat. What happens when a V1 cut happens when the FO is flying? Shouldn't he be tested on it (not just trained but tested) as he will have to fly the airplane? How about a hold, it's just stupid to not test an SIC on a hold. You fly the airplane and you are expected to enter and fly a hold so shouldn't you be tested on it? Anyhow, it doesn't make sense, the reasoning behind why they don't test SIC's on all the same maneuvers.

 

[Jump Pilot]

Same checkride in respect to the manuevers performed, except a type ride is an FAA checkride(more paperwork) and you must perfrom every task to standards on the first attempt.

The type ride has more "manuevers" than the SIC check. At least that is the case where I do my SIC recurrent.

SIC check:

Normal t/o
Stall series
Unusual attitudes
Non-precision approach
V1 cut
SE ILS (coupled or hand flown)

Type check:

Normal t/o
Aborted t/o
Steep turns
Stall series
Unusual attitudes
2 Non-precision approaches (1 full procedure, 1 circling)
Balked landing
Engine failure and re-light
V1 cut
Hold
2 precision approaches (1 single engine, 1 coupled)
Visual no flap

 

[wmuflyguy]

Actually, that is not entirely correct. According to the FAA's Order 8400.10 SIC's are not required to perform holding and they only have to perform 1 percession and one non-precesion approach. A single engine approach is not required, though a single engine landing is. Also there is no V1 cut requirement, but the SIC must successfully conduct an engine failure after takeoff.

Next, the 8400 allows a Company Check Airman to retest failed items for either crew position.

Now from your profile it appears that you are flying for a regional airline. You company policies may differ. The 8400 allows the operator to set their own standards as long as they meet or exceed the standards in Order 8400.10.

I stand corrected, I was just speaking from my own personal experience. Thanks for the info.