F9, WN, Republic stuff

[Remington]

5 yr Fo F9 = $82 max out at $94
5 yr Fo Wn = $119 max out at $131
5 yr Fo Rep = $37

5 yr Ca F9 = $141 max out at $156
5 yr Ca Wn = $183 max out at $198
20 yr Ca Rep = 119

What could have happened:

SWA buys Frontier. All pilots are stapled at SWA. Sucks in most ways for Frontier. Especially the dudes who helped re-invent the place 15 yrs ago. However they get the SWA rates. Bad part is that they can no longer tell their neighbor they're a Capain, but they will make lots more money, and get to have a chance to fly for the most sucessful airline in history.

The busses would have gone away except for the ones going to Mexico and Canada. The pilots of the overlapping service would fly for SWA. The pilot for the Mex an Can service would be SWA codeshare. This would have worked for a while. When SWA figured out how to do int'l ops, the remaining busses would leave, more 737s come in, an all Frontier pilots have a spot at SWA.

I might be missing something, but please ask the Midwest employees their opinon of Rev. Bedford and the Republic coalition.

Frontier just condemend themselves to unemployment followed by bottom-of-the-list employement to every 21yr old pilot at Republic.

You F9 folks might have won the battle, but thank your senior union dudes for losing the war.

What would you want. To be stapled at $130,000/yr+ or interview for $25,000/yr.

It's a whole differnt animal.

Good luck.

 

[Remington]

Midwest employees face layoffs
Tuesday August 18, 2009
An estimated 100 Midwest Airlines employees will lose their jobs following its acquisition by Republic Airways Holdings, a Republic spokesperson confirmed yesterday to ATWOnline.

Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act letters, required by law when job changes are scheduled to occur, were sent to 158 Midwest employees based at Milwaukee General Mitchell International stating that layoffs will begin Aug. 31. Of those who received the letters, 88 are flight crew members who may be able to join Republic after seniority list integration, according to the company. That integration will be determined by Midwest's Air Line Pilots Assn. and Republic's International Brotherhood of Teamsters representatives.

Republic said another 33 notified employees are mechanics, some of whom will retain positions for Republic at MKE. The remaining employees include administration and managerial workers who could be duplicates of existing administrative staff based in Indianapolis. Midwest has around 1,600 employees.

In addition, Republic told this website that the Midwest fleet of 99-seat 717s will be phased out and replaced by 99-seat E-190s.

 

[FNG320]

Midwest employees face layoffs
Tuesday August 18, 2009
An estimated 100 Midwest Airlines employees will lose their jobs following its acquisition by Republic Airways Holdings, a Republic spokesperson confirmed yesterday to ATWOnline.

Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act letters, required by law when job changes are scheduled to occur, were sent to 158 Midwest employees based at Milwaukee General Mitchell International stating that layoffs will begin Aug. 31. Of those who received the letters, 88 are flight crew members who may be able to join Republic after seniority list integration, according to the company. That integration will be determined by Midwest's Air Line Pilots Assn. and Republic's International Brotherhood of Teamsters representatives.

Republic said another 33 notified employees are mechanics, some of whom will retain positions for Republic at MKE. The remaining employees include administration and managerial workers who could be duplicates of existing administrative staff based in Indianapolis. Midwest has around 1,600 employees.

In addition, Republic told this website that the Midwest fleet of 99-seat 717s will be phased out and replaced by 99-seat E-190s.

Things to watch are the integration of Midwest pilots and Republic. The big date for integration and furloughed pilots is purchase date and what was their status at the merger (active or furloughed) not what happens after that date. This could be important.

Also, if you follolw the DAL/NWA and AWA/USAir Nicolia award, there was separation on the integration of wide vs narrow body aircraft. This paralles Frontier/Republic as they are narrow body vs RJ. If you follow the previous mentioned integrations and follow it to the next step you get:

Wide body senior (none) - narrow body mid seniority (frontier Airbus') - RJ (all Republic aircraft and the Frontier Dash 8s) junior.

This also applies to midwest:

Wide body senior (none) - narrow body mid seniority (B717s and DC-9 if any left) - RJ (all republic aircraft)

This results that among captains, all Frontier Captains are senior. The real nut cutting occurs with Frontier FOs and all RJ captains and FO. How do you integrate these groups. Also, there need to be similar 5 to 10 year fences to protect each group from intrusion into the other's fleets. Each group may see some gains and losses, but true interations will not happen for 5 to 10 years.

Merging companies of similar equipment is one thing, but when one company only flies one RJs that is quite another. This can be an example of where "scope" hurts Republic pilots. E170/175 are all considered feeder/RJ aircraft thus do not count as narrow body equipment. As for future E190 aircraft, if/when they get them, they should be considered an narrowbody, but Republic does not have any on the date of purchase, thus they do not count in the mix.

Just my opinion......

FNG

 

[RDG]

5 yr Fo F9 = $82 max out at $94
5 yr Fo Wn = $119 max out at $131
5 yr Fo Rep = $37

5 yr Ca F9 = $141 max out at $156
5 yr Ca Wn = $183 max out at $198
20 yr Ca Rep = 119

What could have happened:

SWA buys Frontier. All pilots are stapled at SWA. Sucks in most ways for Frontier. Especially the dudes who helped re-invent the place 15 yrs ago. However they get the SWA rates. Bad part is that they can no longer tell their neighbor they're a Capain, but they will make lots more money, and get to have a chance to fly for the most sucessful airline in history.

The busses would have gone away except for the ones going to Mexico and Canada. The pilots of the overlapping service would fly for SWA. The pilot for the Mex an Can service would be SWA codeshare. This would have worked for a while. When SWA figured out how to do int'l ops, the remaining busses would leave, more 737s come in, an all Frontier pilots have a spot at SWA.

I might be missing something, but please ask the Midwest employees their opinon of Rev. Bedford and the Republic coalition.

Frontier just condemend themselves to unemployment followed by bottom-of-the-list employement to every 21yr old pilot at Republic.

You F9 folks might have won the battle, but thank your senior union dudes for losing the war.

What would you want. To be stapled at $130,000/yr+ or interview for $25,000/yr.

It's a whole differnt animal.

Good luck.

I was thinking that same thing. It would have been a scat sandwich in the short term, but long term I think it would have been much better. I guess they felt Republic was the lesser of two evils. My best bud is a mechanic over at Frontier and I fear for his job.

 

[johnsonrod]

Who would have paid for the 737 type ratings for Frontier pilots? The pilots or SWA? I guess it's all water under the bridge now...

 

[GuppyWN]

Who would have paid for the 737 type ratings for Frontier pilots? The pilots or SWA? I guess it's all water under the bridge now...

WN VP Flight Ops said PIC and type rating requirement was to be waved and they would be typed when they upgraded.

Gup

 

[SWA/FO]

They would have been exempt from type requirement and typed upon upgrade. Now for the 450 guys on file in Southwest's people department...might have their types in hopes of getting on with us.

 

[TV9Driver]

So any ideas what this means for SWA poolies now? Was this "good" for us or "bad" or did it really change anything?

 

[Cornelius]

When are you guys gonna let this thing rest, we are all getting tired of hearing about the WN/F9 deal.

 

[FlyingSig]

SWA buys Frontier. All pilots are stapled at SWA. Sucks in most ways for Frontier. Especially the dudes who helped re-invent the place 15 yrs ago. However they get the SWA rates. Bad part is that they can no longer tell their neighbor they're a Capain, but they will make lots more money, and get to have a chance to fly for the most sucessful airline in history.

Sounds a lot like the same arguments that American fed TWA... how'd that work out for the TWA pilots?

 

[vance]

Guys,

The water is under the bridge. Since we weren't invited to the dance, why don't we stay out of the Frontier, Republic, Midwest integration? I know it's too tempting to not bite, but it seems a little disingenuous to involve our pay and other details to "the deal that wasn't." I'm sure the pot will stir itself and maybe we'll get an idea of what the guys whose lives are actually being impacted have to say rather than speculation from our meaningless (with all due respect) perspective. I'm sure right now you couldn't drive a 10 penny nail up some of these guys a$$es with a sledgehammer and therefore they don't need a reminder of what lay on the other side of the fence (literally). Don't get me wrong, I think us hooking up with Frontier would've been mutually beneficial, but their union and company decided otherwise. Just a thought...

Respectfully,

Vance

 

[NuGuy]

When are you guys gonna let this thing rest, we are all getting tired of hearing about the WN/F9 deal.

Yea, really...SWA guys need to give it up already.

You guys are starting to sound like an old girlfriend of mine. Let her go, man...she's just not that into you.

Nu

 

[StaySeated]

Why are we still talking about this?

It is done.

Observers want to crucify FAPA, while the F9 employees want to sanctify them. The truth is that FAPA didn't blow this deal up, it just self destructed. Negotiations between the two parties ended on Wednesday with plans to resume on Thursday. They never resumed. End of story.

I don't blame SWAPA for putting their own positive spin on the ordeal. They would be foolish not to do so, and they have a bunch of smart people on their side. They are doing a great job for the SWAPA pilots, as they should.

FAPA hasn't jumped on either bandwagon, because they are still tactical. They are still at war. They just fought a small, four hour skirmish with SWA, SWAPA, and the BK court. That battle is over, and there were a few winners. Some of them being the junior 180 FAPA pilots (including the 56 currently on the street). Most of them being every other employee group at F9..for now.

F9 will cease to exist as it does today, as will the FAPA CBA. This entire scenario with RAH is going to hurt, from top to bottom.

 

[ultrarunner]

Also, there need to be similar 5 to 10 year fences to protect each group from intrusion into the other's fleets.

Pretty good analysis FNG. But just for discussion-sake, what do you do with the MidEx pilot group since they will have no fleet?

It is entirely possible that at the close of purchase, there will be NO 717 airframes on property, and NO pilots on property. Not much to integrate on that one!

 

[FlyinGuy]

Fair top to bottom integration is the only way to go. Just ask FAPA....they set the standard that they want to live by and it will come back to bite them in a serious way.

 

[BoilerUP]

Yea, really...SWA guys need to give it up already.

You guys are starting to sound like an old girlfriend of mine. Let her go, man...she's just not that into you.

Best, most concise description yet of the teeth-gnashing that has gone on since this thing went down...

For an airline and pilot group who some SWA pilots said brought no benefit to a deal, you'd think Frontier would have been their saving grace by the way some have been acting in 'defeat'.

 

[vance]

Please define "some"

For an airline and pilot group who some SWA pilots said brought no benefit to a deal, you'd think Frontier would have been their saving grace by the way some have been acting in 'defeat'.[/QUOTE]

For the record, there are (at last count) 5,935 pilots on the SWA seniority list. Please use the following formula to help your decision.

(sum of swa pilots who flame,act like experts,act like idiots,don't have a life) divided by 5,935 equals percentage of SWA pilots who haven't moved on from the BK decision. I'm guessing you're coming up with a really small percentage.

Hope this helps. Flame On!

 

[BoilerUP]

I define some as more than one, more than few, less than many and much less than most.

I think that's a fairly common definition of the word "some", and hope it clears things up...

 

[NuGuy]

I define some as more than one, more than few, less than many and much less than most.

I think that's a fairly common definition of the word "some", and hope it clears things up...

Agreed, and the percentage of SWA (or allegedly SWA) guys who act like F9 stole their heart but ran away with the pool boy is surprisingly high.

Nu

 

[GuppyWN]

Agreed, and the percentage of SWA (or allegedly SWA) guys who act like F9 stole their heart but ran away with the pool boy is surprisingly high.

Nu

You should prolly include me in there. Personally........... I'm devestated. Almost crushed. Would have been nice but not to be. Now where's my beer.

Gup