F9 to be pay protected at WN rates?

[luv2fly]

There will not be any kind of vote. The f9 pilots are not choosing between RAH and SWA.

The F9 BOD chooses, and they make a recommendation to the UCC.

Is FAPA set up to have a vote by the entire pilot group when things such as seniority change? If FAPA pilots do, then they do have a say in which way F9 will go.

SWA will not continue the purchase unless SWAPA and FAPA agree on seniority. My guess is FAPA pilots will have to vote as we do here at SWA.

 

[arjayeffo]

Already furloughed...

As an F9 F/O it is hard to know what to think. If ten airplanes go away on day one as SWA says they will, I am on the street on day one. Even that scenario is still contingent on a whole lot of things (promises) that dont have any ink under them yet. Not to mention that by some posts on this board (which as we all know are 100% factual) SWA is already overstaffed. So I'm looking at numerous Christmases before I see that windfall of the SWA payscale promised land. Someone earlier made a great point about how everybody thought that United was stable and the place to be ten years ago. That is a perfect example of the other flavor of Kool-Aid here (Republic). The trick is not getting hired at the peak of an airline's success. It's getting hired ten years prior to that. If Republic is serious about keeping us around and growing us, then maybe (big F-ing maybe, I know) that might be a risk worth taking. When the old guys around here started they weren't paid very well at all, just like some of you contend that we might get paid crap with the Republic deal. But it is all a hedged bet in this game. They brought it from there to here, eventually got decent pay rates, and darn if we almost didn't make it.
With all of that said, I would still very much like to have a career with an airline like Southwest Airlines. If that deal makes itself available, would someone let me know.
On a side note, there don't appear to be any foreign contracts on the Rishworth site with a contract term of "3 years OR until your Bankruptcy Savior calls you home to the promised land..."
These are the longest days of my fricking life, lets get it over already.

 

[fiel12]

When I say vote I mean voting for what SWA offers them. I would assume that SWAPA members will get the chance to vote on the proposal. Maybe someone from SWAPA can confirm this.

Any proposal to a change in SWAPA seniority (i.e. SLI) has to pass mem-rat by a greater than 50% majority.

 

[Jim Smyth]

I have 3 words that are good review on how to correctly or incorrectly integrate yourself with a potential acquiring airline.

1. Muse

2. TranStar

3. Morris.

 

[climb2slow]

I cannot, and will not vote for a deal that puts 20% of my fellow pilots on the street on day one of a new deal. They will not see anything in the way of "pay protection" for many many years.

 

[time builder]

I have 3 words that are good review on how to correctly or incorrectly integrate yourself with a potential acquiring airline.

1. Muse

2. TranStar

3. Morris.

I've met some very happy former Morris pilots. Good luck to F9 guys, hope everything works out.

 

[Cometman]

I cannot, and will not vote for a deal that puts 20% of my fellow pilots on the street on day one of a new deal. They will not see anything in the way of "pay protection" for many many years.

I assume you are not for the SWA deal? How about if they intergrated the list and then 20% of the pilots at SWA were out in the street?

You need to remember, you are in Chapter 11, the cours are selling you and that SWA is buying you. You cannot really think that SWA pilots should risk being let go for a while. I would bet that if your union voted on a deal like they say SWA will offer it passes well over 50%.

 

[krewmeel]

The current bid by WN for F9 is $175m and they only want 40 of the 51 AC that F9 is currently operating. Being that WN is overstaffed and said that they are shrinking their operation this year, it is unlikely that the judge or F9 management will allow WN to take over F9 on these terms. F9 pilots will end up furlough fodder and WN can still say they have never furloughed a WN pilot because it will be 200 F9 pilots that will be getting the axe. Also, many redundant admin staff will lose their jobs do to this. WN is going to have to take ALL the pilots, not just enough to fly 40 aircraft or the judge and/or FAPA will scuttle the deal and we go with RAH. This judge is jobs oriented and not just creditor oriented.

FAPA has more leverage than I believe SWAPA is willing to admit. GK want this deal real bad because WN has failed to compete effectively with F9. I believe they thought they would have us out of business by now. Since WN's product is inferior to F9s, for about the same price, then Kelly feels like it is cheaper to buy the competition than to spend much more money trying to put us out of business over several more years. F9 actually get a small premium over WN on tickets in competing markets. WN is not going to meet it's contractually mandated 5% growth if it does not get F9. WN actually needs F9 worse than F9 needs WN

Having said this I hope that a deal can be worked out with WN if they win the auction. But rest assured fellow animals, FAPA will not accept a staple if it appears that it is to protect current WN pilots from furlough no matter how much money they throw our way to tempt us.

 

[Cometman]

The current bid by WN for F9 is $175m and they only want 40 of the 51 AC that F9 is currently operating. Being that WN is overstaffed and said that they are shrinking their operation this year, it is unlikely that the judge or F9 management will allow WN to take over F9 on these terms. F9 pilots will end up furlough fodder and WN can still say they have never furloughed a WN pilot because it will be 200 F9 pilots that will be getting the axe. Also, many redundant admin staff will lose their jobs do to this. WN is going to have to take ALL the pilots, not just enough to fly 40 aircraft or the judge and/or FAPA will scuttle the deal and we go with RAH. This judge is jobs oriented and not just creditor oriented.

FAPA has more leverage than I believe SWAPA is willing to admit. GK want this deal real bad because WN has failed to compete effectively with F9. I believe they thought they would have us out of business by now. Since WN's product is inferior to F9s, for about the same price, then Kelly feels like it is cheaper to buy the competition than to spend much more money trying to put us out of business over several more years. F9 actually get a small premium over WN on tickets in competing markets. WN is not going to meet it's contractually mandated 5% growth if it does not get F9. WN actually needs F9 worse than F9 needs WN

Having said this I hope that a deal can be worked out with WN if they win the auction. But rest assured fellow animals, FAPA will not accept a staple if it appears that it is to protect current WN pilots from furlough no matter how much money they throw our way to tempt us.

Talk about dreaming. I don't know if you are aware, but F9 is being sold because they are in Chapter 11 and cannot get out without somebody buying them. You really should stop drinking when you are on this board so you can think straight. Good luck.

 

[vixin]

Instead it would be ok to furlough pilots from the purchasing airline. Amazing how stupid people are and out of touch with reality. I want all F9 pilots employed, but some expectations on here are ridiculous. Yeah and F9 has been doing steller on its own. Fly for RAH wages be my guest.

 

[MILPILOT17]

The current bid by WN for F9 is $175m and they only want 40 of the 51 AC that F9 is currently operating. Being that WN is overstaffed and said that they are shrinking their operation this year, it is unlikely that the judge or F9 management will allow WN to take over F9 on these terms. F9 pilots will end up furlough fodder and WN can still say they have never furloughed a WN pilot because it will be 200 F9 pilots that will be getting the axe. Also, many redundant admin staff will lose their jobs do to this. WN is going to have to take ALL the pilots, not just enough to fly 40 aircraft or the judge and/or FAPA will scuttle the deal and we go with RAH. This judge is jobs oriented and not just creditor oriented.

FAPA has more leverage than I believe SWAPA is willing to admit. GK want this deal real bad because WN has failed to compete effectively with F9. I believe they thought they would have us out of business by now. Since WN's product is inferior to F9s, for about the same price, then Kelly feels like it is cheaper to buy the competition than to spend much more money trying to put us out of business over several more years. F9 actually get a small premium over WN on tickets in competing markets. WN is not going to meet it's contractually mandated 5% growth if it does not get F9. WN actually needs F9 worse than F9 needs WN

Having said this I hope that a deal can be worked out with WN if they win the auction. But rest assured fellow animals, FAPA will not accept a staple if it appears that it is to protect current WN pilots from furlough no matter how much money they throw our way to tempt us.

Sounds like you're "ALL IN"; hope you're not drawing dead. Best of luck to all the F9 folks.

 

[koko nw]

Since WN's product is inferior to F9s[/B], for about the same price, then Kelly feels like it is cheaper to buy the competition than to spend much more money trying to put us out of business over several more years. F9 actually get a small premium over WN on tickets in competing markets. WN is not going to meet it's contractually mandated 5% growth if it does not get F9. WN actually needs F9 worse than F9 needs WN

.

I admire your pride of ownership and your tenacity about protecting your junior bretheren but what are your alternatives? How would a staple with pay protection and a DEN fence affect the MAJORITY of your pilots? Pay and quality of life wise? vs "integrated" by RAH....Have you seen there pay rates and work rules?

You make the call buddy it's your vote if you have one but think real hard on it before clicking that mouse button.
And you have to be kidding right about how WN needs F9 more then the F9 needs them.....Right?
Regards

 

[climb2slow]

I assume you are not for the SWA deal? How about if they intergrated the list and then 20% of the pilots at SWA were out in the street?

You need to remember, you are in Chapter 11, the cours are selling you and that SWA is buying you. You cannot really think that SWA pilots should risk being let go for a while. I would bet that if your union voted on a deal like they say SWA will offer it passes well over 50%.

First off, we really don't know what the Southwest final deal really is, and I have no doubt that whatever Southwest deal is finalized, the vote will pass. I just won't vote for it.

Is it better to fly for Republic? Depends on the deal.

 

[Falcon Jet 1]

First off, we really don't know what the Southwest final deal really is, and I have no doubt that whatever Southwest deal is finalized, the vote will pass. I just won't vote for it.

Is it better to fly for Republic? Depends on the deal.

You need to get those twins out of your brain and start thinking just a bit!

 

[SWA/FO]

Southwest DID NOT want the non-union Pilots of Morris Air. It was SWAPA, that told the Company - "we want them all".

SWA said "draw-down, interview as needed for Frontier". SWAPA said "we want them all". SWAPA is FAPAs best advocate in dealing with Southwest's management. If a deal is not worked out, guess what? Plan B, we have 40 spare aircraft and 200 Pilots swiming in our hiring pool, Pilots THAT WANT to be here. Frontier is shutdown overnight. You think Gary is stupid? This is probably the reason we have 40 spare aircraft, so he has another option. He has been waiting for over a year to pull the trigger on this one.

Some of you guys need to pull your head out of your a$$, the Frontier you once knew is gone. You guys have a great opportunity right in front of your face, possible pay protection, base protection, no interview and no type rating. Don't blow it....something like this doesn't come along very often.

I feel bad for the guys in the pool, like I said they want to be here and they might end up having to interview again or behind 650 F9 guys, pissed off cus they have to work weekends.

Don't screw it up.... to the rest of you "welcome to Southwest Airlines!"

 

[fiel12]

Southwest DID NOT want the non-union Pilots of Morris Air. It was SWAPA, that told the Company - "we want them all".

SWA said "draw-down, interview as needed for Frontier". SWAPA said "we want them all". SWAPA is FAPAs best advocate in dealing with Southwest's management. If a deal is not worked out, guess what? Plan B, we have 40 spare aircraft and 200 Pilots swiming in our hiring pool, Pilots THAT WANT to be here. Frontier is shutdown overnight. You think Gary is stupid? This is probably the reason we have 40 spare aircraft, so he has another option. He has been waiting for over a year to pull the trigger on this one.

Some of you guys need to pull your head out of your a$$, the Frontier you once knew is gone. You guys have a great opportunity right in front of your face, possible pay protection, base protection, no interview and no type rating. Don't blow it....something like this doesn't come along very often.

I feel bad for the guys in the pool, like I said they want to be here and they might end up having to interview again or behind 650 F9 guys, pissed off cus they have to work weekends.

Don't screw it up.... to the rest of you "welcome to Southwest Airlines!"

True.

 

[canyonblue]

FAPA has more leverage than I believe SWAPA is willing to admit. GK want this deal real bad because WN has failed to compete effectively with F9. I believe they thought they would have us out of business by now. Since WN's product is inferior to F9s, for about the same price, then Kelly feels like it is cheaper to buy the competition than to spend much more money trying to put us out of business over several more years.

Just giving you a heads up that we are required by Federal Law to Drug Test all applicants.

 

[krewmeel]

Just giving you a heads up that we are required by Federal Law to Drug Test all applicants.

Touche"

 

[Cosmo007]

Southwest DID NOT want the non-union Pilots of Morris Air. It was SWAPA, that told the Company - "we want them all".

SWA said "draw-down, interview as needed for Frontier". SWAPA said "we want them all". SWAPA is FAPAs best advocate in dealing with Southwest's management. If a deal is not worked out, guess what? Plan B, we have 40 spare aircraft and 200 Pilots swiming in our hiring pool, Pilots THAT WANT to be here. Frontier is shutdown overnight. You think Gary is stupid? This is probably the reason we have 40 spare aircraft, so he has another option. He has been waiting for over a year to pull the trigger on this one.

Some of you guys need to pull your head out of your a$$, the Frontier you once knew is gone. You guys have a great opportunity right in front of your face, possible pay protection, base protection, no interview and no type rating. Don't blow it....something like this doesn't come along very often.

I feel bad for the guys in the pool, like I said they want to be here and they might end up having to interview again or behind 650 F9 guys, pissed off cus they have to work weekends.

Don't screw it up.... to the rest of you "welcome to Southwest Airlines!"

I might have said it more nicely, but it's essentially true. We know our management all too well. SWA is trying to play nice and treat FAPA somewhat like family for now, but that may well end as soon as they get in SWA's way.

 

[SWA/FO]

the SWA/FO doesn't candy-coat things.

 

[ron burgundy]

A former classmate has told me that the F9 pilots will be pay protected at SWA rates, not their (F9) current rates. He is a SWAPA dude, so I would assume he is all over the details. BTW, I asked him what he makes and he said his first 6 months were 80K and he is a 6 year guy, I think.

What are the F9 folks hearing? It seems to me that would add up pretty quick. I don't know what the F9 pay is now w/ bankruptcy, but it is a sizable raise even on top of their pre-BK pay.

Is Republic going to honor F9's current rates or pre-BK contract rates? I know BB has said that he would honor (funny word coming from him) F9 contract for three years, but what happens after that?

I wish the best for those of you at F9. Hoopefully there is a solution with a reasonable consolation after seeing your company go through this.

I have also heard that F9 guys will have first pick of the best looking, "willing and able", F/As on over nights and the SWA pilot he is flying with is obligated to pay the tab...Awesome!

Good thing my company isn't in the mix..My avatar is the best looking F/A we have.

 

[California]

yep... bla bla bla

 

[Cometman]

First off, we really don't know what the Southwest final deal really is, and I have no doubt that whatever Southwest deal is finalized, the vote will pass. I just won't vote for it.

Is it better to fly for Republic? Depends on the deal.

Thanks for the honesty. When and if the vote cimes I am pretty sure you will reconsider. I think you realize that SWA's offer will be the best for you. Good luck.

 

[shootr]

The SWA/FO is dead on. Our management is not your friend until you are an employee of SWA (and then, sometimes not). They are ruthless and will not give you anything just to be nice. If they can structure the deal to draw down F9 and not hire you guys at all, they will. However, SWA wants labor's blessing (read SWAPA, not FAPA) and SWAPA wants you guys on the list, maybe even with no interview, no type rating, longevity, and pay protection. Good grief...we're trying to help you, and I'll even admit it's with our own personal motivations.

Don't doubt for a minute that SWA is serious and will win this deal. Their upped binding bid should tell you this. You should get RAH out of your mind and figure out how to get SWAPA's protection from SWA. A/M and B/M do not require employment. They only require a fair integration if there is one. You're in chapter 11. Your scope provisions are worthless if the judge says so. You could be bought and drawn down in less than 2 years with no seniority number and no interview. It stinks...I know. It's reality. You don't have to end up in this worst case scenario. Your union prez said worst case was a staple!? Not even close.

For the junior 2/3 of FAPA, don't let the senior 1/3 blow this for you!

Good luck,
shootr

 

[HDA]

The SWA/FO is dead on. Our management is not your friend until you are an employee of SWA (and then, sometimes not). They are ruthless and will not give you anything just to be nice. If they can structure the deal to draw down F9 and not hire you guys at all, they will. However, SWA wants labor's blessing (read SWAPA, not FAPA) and SWAPA wants you guys on the list, maybe even with no interview, no type rating, longevity, and pay protection. Good grief...we're trying to help you, and I'll even admit it's with our own personal motivations.

Don't doubt for a minute that SWA is serious and will win this deal. Their upped binding bid should tell you this. You should get RAH out of your mind and figure out how to get SWAPA's protection from SWA. A/M and B/M do not require employment. They only require a fair integration if there is one. You're in chapter 11. Your scope provisions are worthless if the judge says so. You could be bought and drawn down in less than 2 years with no seniority number and no interview. It stinks...I know. It's reality. You don't have to end up in this worst case scenario. Your union prez said worst case was a staple!? Not even close.

For the junior 2/3 of FAPA, don't let the senior 1/3 blow this for you!

Good luck,
shootr

That is exactly what I am worried about......the senior guys were pretty quiet for the most part when the Republic deal was the only one on the table.....but now they have come out of the woodwork.

One other thing to think about....there has been alot of ********************slinging going on this board by people who claim to be F9/WN pilots. Anyone can come on this site, make up a profile, and post away. The fact that some "data" from this site is making it to the SWAPA website and getting people rilled up is disturbing. I am furloughed from Frontier and keep in touch with alot of the other furloughees. Everyone that I have spoke with are hoping for the SWA deal to come through yet the expectations are not high.......a seniority number would be great news for most of us.

 

[firstthird]

don't let the senior 1/3 blow this for you!

I'm not that senior, even for a FO, and I'm at SWA so I doubt I have much influence at FAPA.

 

[starchkr]

As an F9 F/O it is hard to know what to think. If ten airplanes go away on day one as SWA says they will, I am on the street on day one. Even that scenario is still contingent on a whole lot of things (promises) that dont have any ink under them yet. Not to mention that by some posts on this board (which as we all know are 100% factual) SWA is already overstaffed. So I'm looking at numerous Christmases before I see that windfall of the SWA payscale promised land. Someone earlier made a great point about how everybody thought that United was stable and the place to be ten years ago. That is a perfect example of the other flavor of Kool-Aid here (Republic). The trick is not getting hired at the peak of an airline's success. It's getting hired ten years prior to that. If Republic is serious about keeping us around and growing us, then maybe (big F-ing maybe, I know) that might be a risk worth taking. When the old guys around here started they weren't paid very well at all, just like some of you contend that we might get paid crap with the Republic deal. But it is all a hedged bet in this game. They brought it from there to here, eventually got decent pay rates, and darn if we almost didn't make it.
With all of that said, I would still very much like to have a career with an airline like Southwest Airlines. If that deal makes itself available, would someone let me know.
On a side note, there don't appear to be any foreign contracts on the Rishworth site with a contract term of "3 years OR until your Bankruptcy Savior calls you home to the promised land..."
These are the longest days of my fricking life, lets get it over already.

I hear ya. I just happen to fall within 5 numbers or so of either being safe or on the street however they decide to get the 80%.

 

[Cardinal]

I cannot, and will not vote for a deal that puts 20% of my fellow pilots on the street on day one of a new deal. They will not see anything in the way of "pay protection" for many many years.

8% of us are already on the street, and we very much want this deal.

 

[airlinepilot]

New FAA RULES AND MANNING

Hey guys and gals. I had a long discussion with our SWAPA Safety guy (JG) and he said the new rules for crew rest (12 Hr duty day) will mean all airlines will have to increase manning. At SW we will need 3 reserve raps vs the 2 we have now. We will go from 200 extra pilots to needing extra pilots. He told me to expect the new regs on the street in the next 30 to 45 days. After that the airlines will 180 days to put them into affect.

 

[slaquer5]

I hear ya. I just happen to fall within 5 numbers or so of either being safe or on the street however they decide to get the 80%.

Trust me, no one is going to be on the street. Not you or the furloughed F9 guys.