F9 to be pay protected at WN rates?

[BlueBlood]

Wouldn't they carry longevity for pay/vacation and get new seniority numbers at the bottom for bidding and etc.? It seems easy at first glance. Keep your longevity for pay and vacation, then everything else goes to the bottom.

?????

 

[firstthird]

Longevity for vacation is pretty easy. for pay would be harder, there would be no need for pay protection if they carried longevity for pay purposes. a 12 swa fo probably makes more than a 12 year F9 capt if the conversion is correct. but who knows.

 

[njcapt]

OK, folks. instructordude is a TROLL. For the internet newbies on this board, please review this:

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Troll

You're welcome.

LOL

 

[MILPILOT17]

They'll take it to an arbritrator who will enforce seat protection and a blend of DOH/relative seniority. Its federal law.

HA! You really are a FAT IDIOT! Going to wipe the tears from my eyes now; have a nice day. HAHAHA!

 

[texman]

They'll take it to an arbritrator who will enforce seat protection and a blend of DOH/relative seniority. Its federal law.

Your funny. Your pic looks like the dad from family guy. lol

 

[waka]

instructordude, I love the comic relief that you provide to FI! keep up the good work! :beer:

 

[climb2slow]

I'm not sure we're reading this correctly. there are a few ways that a 'pay protection' could go down.

1 - it depends on if FAPA guys bring their current longevity to any combined list for pay/vacation purposes

2 - it depends on how the integration goes, obviously. any type of ratio/feather and they'd see higher rates from day one at SWA pay so pay protection wouldn't be necessary

3 - assume a staple for the sake of this argument. it wouldn't make sense to 'pay protect' them at 12 year SWA captain rates. it would make sense to make sure they make at least the same as they made at F9 prior to A&M. So, there would seem to be some kind of conversion of their hourly rates to our trip rates, and they would maintain that higher rater until they surpass it at normal SWA pay scales.

doesn't seem that tough to figure out. "pay protection" that paid F9 guys 1st year SWA wages wouldn't be pay protection. neither would "pay protection" that paid the well above their current rates. the idea of pay protection is so that no one takes a pay cut in the merger.

thoughts?

Here is my only heart burn with this incessant 'pay protection' argument. There is more to a career than money. I have made more, I do not want to make less, but I could. What I would rather have is a stable career. That being said, seniority is king. Southwest has been a hugely successful company that has been the place to go for a long time. I remember a time about 10 years ago when United was the place to go. That has not worked out so well for a lot of folks. I am not completely convinced that just paying me more and stapling me is better than a seniority integration at Republic that keeps all my fellow pilots, not just 80% of them, and a future that contains growth.

All that said, it is still too early to worry until the auction is over and we have a winner. Until that time, there is not any point to speculating.

 

[Cometman]

Here is my only heart burn with this incessant 'pay protection' argument. There is more to a career than money. I have made more, I do not want to make less, but I could. What I would rather have is a stable career. That being said, seniority is king. Southwest has been a hugely successful company that has been the place to go for a long time. I remember a time about 10 years ago when United was the place to go. That has not worked out so well for a lot of folks. I am not completely convinced that just paying me more and stapling me is better than a seniority integration at Republic that keeps all my fellow pilots, not just 80% of them, and a future that contains growth.

All that said, it is still too early to worry until the auction is over and we have a winner. Until that time, there is not any point to speculating.

SWA has a history of being stable. You know what to expect going with SWA. You really don't know the history with Republic. It will be a gamble if you have the choice. If you get to vote yes or no on the SWA deal I would think the odds are in your favor if you go with SWA. I wish I had the chance to vote for something like that.

 

[StaySeated]

There will not be any kind of vote. The f9 pilots are not choosing between RAH and SWA.

The F9 BOD chooses, and they make a recommendation to the UCC.

 

[Cometman]

There will not be any kind of vote. The f9 pilots are not choosing between RAH and SWA.

The F9 BOD chooses, and they make a recommendation to the UCC.

When I say vote I mean voting for what SWA offers them. I would assume that SWAPA members will get the chance to vote on the proposal. Maybe someone from SWAPA can confirm this.

 

[luv2fly]

There will not be any kind of vote. The f9 pilots are not choosing between RAH and SWA.

The F9 BOD chooses, and they make a recommendation to the UCC.

Is FAPA set up to have a vote by the entire pilot group when things such as seniority change? If FAPA pilots do, then they do have a say in which way F9 will go.

SWA will not continue the purchase unless SWAPA and FAPA agree on seniority. My guess is FAPA pilots will have to vote as we do here at SWA.

 

[arjayeffo]

Already furloughed...

As an F9 F/O it is hard to know what to think. If ten airplanes go away on day one as SWA says they will, I am on the street on day one. Even that scenario is still contingent on a whole lot of things (promises) that dont have any ink under them yet. Not to mention that by some posts on this board (which as we all know are 100% factual) SWA is already overstaffed. So I'm looking at numerous Christmases before I see that windfall of the SWA payscale promised land. Someone earlier made a great point about how everybody thought that United was stable and the place to be ten years ago. That is a perfect example of the other flavor of Kool-Aid here (Republic). The trick is not getting hired at the peak of an airline's success. It's getting hired ten years prior to that. If Republic is serious about keeping us around and growing us, then maybe (big F-ing maybe, I know) that might be a risk worth taking. When the old guys around here started they weren't paid very well at all, just like some of you contend that we might get paid crap with the Republic deal. But it is all a hedged bet in this game. They brought it from there to here, eventually got decent pay rates, and darn if we almost didn't make it.
With all of that said, I would still very much like to have a career with an airline like Southwest Airlines. If that deal makes itself available, would someone let me know.
On a side note, there don't appear to be any foreign contracts on the Rishworth site with a contract term of "3 years OR until your Bankruptcy Savior calls you home to the promised land..."
These are the longest days of my fricking life, lets get it over already.

 

[fiel12]

When I say vote I mean voting for what SWA offers them. I would assume that SWAPA members will get the chance to vote on the proposal. Maybe someone from SWAPA can confirm this.

Any proposal to a change in SWAPA seniority (i.e. SLI) has to pass mem-rat by a greater than 50% majority.

 

[Jim Smyth]

I have 3 words that are good review on how to correctly or incorrectly integrate yourself with a potential acquiring airline.

1. Muse

2. TranStar

3. Morris.

 

[climb2slow]

I cannot, and will not vote for a deal that puts 20% of my fellow pilots on the street on day one of a new deal. They will not see anything in the way of "pay protection" for many many years.

 

[time builder]

I have 3 words that are good review on how to correctly or incorrectly integrate yourself with a potential acquiring airline.

1. Muse

2. TranStar

3. Morris.

I've met some very happy former Morris pilots. Good luck to F9 guys, hope everything works out.

 

[Cometman]

I cannot, and will not vote for a deal that puts 20% of my fellow pilots on the street on day one of a new deal. They will not see anything in the way of "pay protection" for many many years.

I assume you are not for the SWA deal? How about if they intergrated the list and then 20% of the pilots at SWA were out in the street?

You need to remember, you are in Chapter 11, the cours are selling you and that SWA is buying you. You cannot really think that SWA pilots should risk being let go for a while. I would bet that if your union voted on a deal like they say SWA will offer it passes well over 50%.

 

[krewmeel]

The current bid by WN for F9 is $175m and they only want 40 of the 51 AC that F9 is currently operating. Being that WN is overstaffed and said that they are shrinking their operation this year, it is unlikely that the judge or F9 management will allow WN to take over F9 on these terms. F9 pilots will end up furlough fodder and WN can still say they have never furloughed a WN pilot because it will be 200 F9 pilots that will be getting the axe. Also, many redundant admin staff will lose their jobs do to this. WN is going to have to take ALL the pilots, not just enough to fly 40 aircraft or the judge and/or FAPA will scuttle the deal and we go with RAH. This judge is jobs oriented and not just creditor oriented.

FAPA has more leverage than I believe SWAPA is willing to admit. GK want this deal real bad because WN has failed to compete effectively with F9. I believe they thought they would have us out of business by now. Since WN's product is inferior to F9s, for about the same price, then Kelly feels like it is cheaper to buy the competition than to spend much more money trying to put us out of business over several more years. F9 actually get a small premium over WN on tickets in competing markets. WN is not going to meet it's contractually mandated 5% growth if it does not get F9. WN actually needs F9 worse than F9 needs WN

Having said this I hope that a deal can be worked out with WN if they win the auction. But rest assured fellow animals, FAPA will not accept a staple if it appears that it is to protect current WN pilots from furlough no matter how much money they throw our way to tempt us.

 

[Cometman]

The current bid by WN for F9 is $175m and they only want 40 of the 51 AC that F9 is currently operating. Being that WN is overstaffed and said that they are shrinking their operation this year, it is unlikely that the judge or F9 management will allow WN to take over F9 on these terms. F9 pilots will end up furlough fodder and WN can still say they have never furloughed a WN pilot because it will be 200 F9 pilots that will be getting the axe. Also, many redundant admin staff will lose their jobs do to this. WN is going to have to take ALL the pilots, not just enough to fly 40 aircraft or the judge and/or FAPA will scuttle the deal and we go with RAH. This judge is jobs oriented and not just creditor oriented.

FAPA has more leverage than I believe SWAPA is willing to admit. GK want this deal real bad because WN has failed to compete effectively with F9. I believe they thought they would have us out of business by now. Since WN's product is inferior to F9s, for about the same price, then Kelly feels like it is cheaper to buy the competition than to spend much more money trying to put us out of business over several more years. F9 actually get a small premium over WN on tickets in competing markets. WN is not going to meet it's contractually mandated 5% growth if it does not get F9. WN actually needs F9 worse than F9 needs WN

Having said this I hope that a deal can be worked out with WN if they win the auction. But rest assured fellow animals, FAPA will not accept a staple if it appears that it is to protect current WN pilots from furlough no matter how much money they throw our way to tempt us.

Talk about dreaming. I don't know if you are aware, but F9 is being sold because they are in Chapter 11 and cannot get out without somebody buying them. You really should stop drinking when you are on this board so you can think straight. Good luck.

 

[vixin]

Instead it would be ok to furlough pilots from the purchasing airline. Amazing how stupid people are and out of touch with reality. I want all F9 pilots employed, but some expectations on here are ridiculous. Yeah and F9 has been doing steller on its own. Fly for RAH wages be my guest.