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F9 still in play

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tathagatha

Active member
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Posts
30
We got a whole bunch of traffic on the jungle telegraph saying F9 is still in play. Well at least 49% of it...

If its true, its a huge shift in where DIA is going.
 
Dang bro, that's not clear to me?!? I don't think it's the tequila & beer... please explain, see ya in the morning!
 
When it appeared that the deal was unraveling, Herb told those involved not to worry about it and that either it wasn't meant to be or that we could easily end up with an even better deal a few months down the road.

The good news for RAH is that they WON.
The bad news for RAH is that THEY won.
 
tathagatha said:
We got a whole bunch of traffic on the jungle telegraph saying F9 is still in play. Well at least 49% of it...

If its true, its a huge shift in where DIA is going.
Click to expand...

My posts are like that after 7 rum and cokes. Not 6...but 7.
 
If it's true, it's a bad deal for the Frontier pilots, as Southwest won't have to keep the pilots on board.

Imagine that, RAH pockets their money back from their investment in DIP financing, gets all those Q-400's to place somewhere in their fleet, makes some EXTRA money from the sale of the Airbus and gates to Southwest, and the smaller percentage lets Southwest have "preferential interviews" WHEN they start hiring again... sometime in 2012, as they swap Airbus for 737's and their poolies replace the Frontier pilots with the aircraft swaps.

I smell an ATA coming on again... Baaaaaad juju. :(
 
Lear70 said:
If it's true, it's a bad deal for the Frontier pilots, as Southwest won't have to keep the pilots on board.

Imagine that, RAH pockets their money back from their investment in DIP financing, gets all those Q-400's to place somewhere in their fleet, makes some EXTRA money from the sale of the Airbus and gates to Southwest, and the smaller percentage lets Southwest have "preferential interviews" WHEN they start hiring again... sometime in 2012, as they swap Airbus for 737's and their poolies replace the Frontier pilots with the aircraft swaps.

I smell an ATA coming on again... Baaaaaad juju. :(
Click to expand...

Close, I am sure there will be some other hand shake deals for this to come about but I am thinking you are right and Gary is using Herbs play book.JMO
 
Look there was a window, albiet small, to take an offer and get F9 pilots on WN property. Had I been in the shoes of the FAPA union I might very well think I was being railroaded too so I can't say I blame them holding out that night that likely decided the rest of their careers. The end outcome is still unclear but I know that SWA would *love* to get a good deal of 49% of the F9 assets, perhaps the DEN gates, LGA, some international stuff etc. Oh and now there would be no labor issues.

Is RAH going to protect their employees the way WN just protected theirs?
 
Republic will likely sell off the assets of F9 that they deem "not needed" as they replace the Airbus with RJ's. SWA will get the pieces we were after in the first place without the hassle of labor unrest. Mark this post and reference it in a few months.
 
I haven't heard anything regarding this... does anyone have any details?
Click to expand...

I believe most of this speculation came from a SWAPA BOD meeting last week in which Gary Kelly said that Frontier was still in play. I guess he was kinda stomping his foot up and down in a joking manner, as we should be paying attention. No idea what his real plans are. Buy the whole enchilada, or the 49 percent solution.
 
roughneck said:
Republic will likely sell off the assets of F9 that they deem "not needed" as they replace the Airbus with RJ's. SWA will get the pieces we were after in the first place without the hassle of labor unrest. Mark this post and reference it in a few months.
Click to expand...

Marked... I said the same thing about 2 or 3 weeks ago trying to convince the F9'ers to stay away from the RAH deal. Those guys are in this to make $$, not friends.
 
when F9 is bought out from under RAH, you are now not "buying F9", you will be buying 49% of RAH which happens to be called F9.

The future of mergers and Aq, have another company buy what you want, change the ratios and then buy 49% later without the people. Brilliant.

Good luck F9 folks.
 
DING! I think we have a winner!!!!

F9 parts might just be worth more than the whole!


Lear70 said:
If it's true, it's a bad deal for the Frontier pilots, as Southwest won't have to keep the pilots on board.

Imagine that, RAH pockets their money back from their investment in DIP financing, gets all those Q-400's to place somewhere in their fleet, makes some EXTRA money from the sale of the Airbus and gates to Southwest, and the smaller percentage lets Southwest have "preferential interviews" WHEN they start hiring again... sometime in 2012, as they swap Airbus for 737's and their poolies replace the Frontier pilots with the aircraft swaps.

I smell an ATA coming on again... Baaaaaad juju. :(
Click to expand...
 
If this is true Johny S and the FAPA team will go down as making one major error in judgement while trying to save their beloved left seat's.
 
USMC319 said:
Maybe its Lynx. Heard they might be for sale.
Click to expand...
Why?

That's the best part of the whole deal for RAH. Great regional aicraft, many airlines want to operate them, ready-made crews with no flow-back rights to worry about from F9, and no delivery time waits to get them or lining up financing, etc.

If I were a betting person, I'd bet money Bedford already had a contract lined up for those Q-400's before this deal even was on the table...
 
Bedford said he has not even thought about the future of Lynx. He doesn't like turboprops. sounds like a few will head to wisconson. Lynx sounds like an afterthought to Bedford. Wonder what will happen to Lynx. Southwest would be great for the pilots @ lynx. But that is a bit far fetched...
 
MINIME said:
Boy if this is true, this could get ugly. I feel for the F9 guys if this has any merit.
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Dont they are better off. They got what they wanted and did not believe that SWA would not furlough more F9 pilots. The SWA pilots would have taken a reduction in there lines to help the F9 guys. Now all bets are off. The F9 pilots showed Gary there true colors and what they think of SWA.
 
"The SWA pilots would have taken a reduction in there lines to help the F9 guys. Now all bets are off."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_WesTtHf2Q&feature=related

YUP.

I think this will go down historically as one of the most MONUMENTAL F-UP's to EVER have happened within this Industry ( or what is left of it ).


Mama Boucher: Bobby, deh ever catch dat gorilla that busted outa da zoo and punched you in da eye?
Bobby Boucher: No Mama, the search continues.



Best of Luck to all you Gentleman and Ladies....Oh, and you too..."Waterboy".
 
Last edited:
Whine Lover said:
"The SWA pilots would have taken a reduction in there lines to help the F9 guys. Now all bets are off."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_WesTtHf2Q&feature=related

YUP.

I think this will go down historically as one of the most MONUMENTAL F-UP's to EVER have happened within this Industry ( or what is left of it ).

Duh...."Hey Waterboy!"

"My Mama say's....My Mama say's..."

Mama Boucher: Bobby, deh ever catch dat gorilla that busted outa da zoo and punched you in da eye?
Bobby Boucher: No Mama, the search continues.


Dem boys..Dey Genius....Doan make no steak bout' it....You daon mess wid de DEBIL!


Best of Luck to all you Gentleman and Ladies....


Alexander d'loiscious Azemanhole
Click to expand...


Please stop... the pain is unbearable!
 
A WN and F9 merger would have been one tough airline to compete against. It would have all but locked up DEN and provided WN some key international routes. With similar corporate cultures, the F9 pilots would blended well into the WN team. Staple job? That's sucks but if WN was willing to give years of service credit for pay and vacation purposes, in the long term it would have been better to take the staple, a hit on pay for F9 Capts, but significantly more job security in the long-term.

Frontier is a great airline which should not be associated in any way with Republic.
 
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Whine Lover said:
" a hit on pay for F9 Capts.."

Incorrect.

There was pay protection at....get this,..........PRIOR TO BANKRUPTCY F9 CBA RATES ( hear that? ) OR.....SWA RATES....WHICHEVER WAS HIGHER.

Much like the Morris deal.

Whatever, I guess...Waterboys.


YKRAMS
Click to expand...

Pay protection? If that's the case and I happened to be negotiating on behalf of the F9 pilots, I would have taken the deal.
 
It is pretty easy to "monday morning QB" the F9 guys, but they were probably facing a furlough of one-third of their FOs within 90 days with a staple. That is a tough call any way you slice it.

The timeline for the deal did not allow an opportunity for either side to truly negotiate a deal that they could live with.
 

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