F9/RAH meeting

[Daddy]

I've been in this industry for more than 20 years and have watched it spiral out of control. Part of this is from the lowering of the bar by airlines like AWA. What George Nicolau did and what people like you at SWA tried to do to the F9 guys is the reason why this job is going down the tubes. I know- your "it's all about me" attitude worked for you and your kind at Southwest but one day you will need the help of your fellow pilots. What goes around comes around.

Why dont you take a look at your pay rates and then tell me who is lowering the bar in this industry

 

[General Lee]

A True Story,

Over 5 yrs ago I got a FI private message saying what a great airline SWA was...he told me to say hi to a couple of the 3 digit numbers in DAL that I flew with. He provided me enough background info on himself that I then went to the DAL 3 digits and asked if they knew of someone who might match the profile....an original SWA pilot, left after 2.5 yrs at SWA for Delta, had a wife who was in charge of SWA FA training from the beginning.....they immediately knew who it was and when I wrote to the "anonymous" emailer I confirmed it was him.

He retired from DAL with right at 30 yrs of seniority, flew international, flew nearly all types of the aircraft and was there for the heyday and 2001 aftermath.

Here is his quote General:

"You fly for a great airline (SWA) and I regret many times over having left it when I did...I went chasing big iron and a more established name...too short sighted. SWA was and appears to be a unique culture and compared to DAL's, my worse day at SWA was better than my best day at DAL. There aren't many decisions I regret in my life but that is one, leaving SWA for DAL in 1976."

I don't know why you bash SWA or others so much. The folks in LBB and MAF are customers also, just like the ones in Rome or Madrid. Who knows how long we will serve them but if we ever pull out, we can never thank them enough for sticking by us for so many years. It is only a business decision to you and others....to me, like the lady who walked on the airplane with a hot cherry pie and turned right into the cockpit and said to me, "this is for the crew to say thanks for serving us for all these years." How many of your London passengers have done that for you lately.

Honestly answer this question General...when was the last time and how many times a month do you get comments from passengers or persons who fly on Delta that say, "Delta is my favorite airline...thanks so much for your airline." I can humbly say that nearly on nearly every 2, 3 or 4 day trip when talking to passengers at the airport, in the hotel elevator or eating out, if the topic of who I work for comes up, I get that line...not because of me in particularly but because of the thousands of others who do care about each passengers. We have our jerks but we try to keep them off of FI!

I call this last one the "t-shirt" check...how many t-shirts or clothing items do you have in your closet that has your airlines name and logo on it? I contend you can look in the closet of any airline employee and besides their uniform, you can judge the empathy and support that airline has of its employees by how many of those items each employee possess. Not scientific but I think it tells a story. How many do you own?

Who knows what the future holds but your comments merely confirm what Bill had to say about his time at DAL...I have many friends who are there who are great folks but they all say "it is mostly a job".

My apologies if you think this is a personal attack but simply a suggestion to reflect upon the professionals you do fly with at DAL and suggest attempts in the future to represent them in a manner through your posts that brings a more positive light upon them and refrain from criticizing others.

Each to their own...you've made your choice and I hope you don't wish at the end of your career that you should've been somewhere else....of course Bill had the choice, you may not have. Have a great day. Cheers,

Chase,

Sounds like Bill made a wrong choice in his mind. Everyone is allowed to think that way if they want. Others get bored really quick with one plane, 5-6 legs a day. I flew at the commuters back in the day, and that got tiring REAL quick. When I spoke with that SWA FO I have brought up a few times, he told me "they work us like dawgs." He didn't have to tell me that, but he did. If you are faced with very little variety in life, you tend to get negative, seeing only the negative issues. Over a few years those multi-leg multi days schedules are going to eat you guys alive, and it won't change---forever. Same plane, same 5 legs a day to somewhere in California and then maybe end up in Omaha or Tulsa. Some people actually crave familiarity, since it keeps them in their "comfort zone." Other people like variety, and a challenge. If you think Delta will always have lower pay than SWA or worse benefits, then you have forgotten that we had all things better just a few years ago (pre-9-11 and a couple years after), and if it wasn't for our past management and 9-11, we likely would still be higher in many areas than SWA. BK aint fun, and it surely wasn't all our fault as pilots. We aim to get stronger as an airline, and build back up our pay and benefits to be admired by all. We are glad you have kept the bar up during these tough times for most airlines, and we hope to surpass you during our next negotiations. We all should want to do that for our profession as a whole. But, as we try to best each other pay wise, the one thing you probably will not be able to change is variety for plane and type of operation (multi-leg, 25 min turns, etc). And if I knew I couldn't get something different flying wise, and had 25 more years to go with multi-leg days and only one plane in my future, I wouldn't be as happy as you are. I enjoy my variety and the challenge of INTL flying, but I can go back to 2 leg domestic days any time I want. That makes me feel FANTASTIC. Variety is the spice of life. Have a great one.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[RedDogC130]

General..that was a good post but when will you get it we do not fly 5-6 legs a day with 25 min turns. I flew 1 today with a 20 hour overnight.....2 tommorow with a 1 hour DH a 16 hour overnight and 3 the final day. Total flight time 14 and change....pays 20 and change worth of credit. Sure the turn time may be quicker than you can handle but then our days are shorter.....please stop talking about crap you have ZERO clue on. You don't see any of us bashing DAL on stuff we do not know about only the facts....grow up peter pan.

 

[SWA/FO]

Hey General, how far did you move down with the NWA deal? How far up?

You might get your wish and see us in ATL! ITS ON!!!!!

 

[aewanabe]

i would gladly go to jail for the pleasure of elbowing wayne heller in the face. He is a souless, evil, bitter prick. He hates pilots and purposefully does everything in his power to screw them.

F wayne heller.:angryfire

+1....

 

[N1atEcon]

Ok, we are coming up on page #7 and no one from Fronitier can answer my three questions....

Quote:
Don't forget that Frontier has been profitable for nearly 9 months straight, and that was accomplished by using the Airbus flown by F9 pilots.
1. At what pay rates were the F9 pilots at during this 9 months, was that after the concessions?
2. Were you getting a 401k match?
3. What has the price of fuel been the last 9 months? I believe it was in the mid thirtys for a while.

 

[RedDogC130]

it is because they know they got screwed and do not want to admit it

 

[climb2slow]

Ok, we are coming up on page #7 and no one from Fronitier can answer my three questions....

Maybe that's because no one at Frontier gives a S&^$ about your questions?

 

[General Lee]

Hey General, why are you so infatuated with our little Texas airline????

Everyone used to think the DL pilots were the most cocky, and it is natural for people to pick on people like that. Ever since the Legacy BKs after 9-11, people have begun to notice how cocky you SWA guys have become, and a lot of that was clearly shown in your posts concerning your possible acquisition of F9. What really bothers you guys is when someone doesn't want to do what you do. It bothers you to no end. What? Why wouldn't someone want "what I have?" (you would ask) Not everyone wants to fly multiple legs per day, with 25 minute turns, on one airplane, forever. Your model will not change. The majority of your trips will be like that, primarily because your trips are productive and don't really go through a "hub" (maybe 1 stop thru MDW on the way West, but 5 stops to LAX). You may like that, but the majority of us do not. You flew Military Heavies (ooooh, ahhhh), while most of the rest of us flew multiple leg days at the commuters. Your liking of the multiple leg days will wane eventually, and your transiting ELP AGAIN will eat at your brain. Fact is pre-9-11 many SWA captains left SWA for United, to later get furloughed. Can Chase explain that? Good ole Bill told him one thing, but we know of several Captains leaving for United to fly the World, and get away from Hobby.(unfortunately leading to a furlough) Again, your pay is great and some stews are fun, but your type of flying and lack of variety in aircraft leave a lot to be desired. But hey, if you love it, then "it's ON."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[climb2slow]

it is because they know they got screwed and do not want to admit it

Actually it's because we have moved on...and are quite happy. Unlike our LUVers to the south.