F15 Vs F16

[av8instyle]

F-16 v F-15

I'd like to enter into the fight...back to the original question.

Mission: Eagle drivers will tell you that the Viper doesn't do any mission very well. What that really means is that the Viper does so many missions (AA, SEAD, CAS, NVG, TGP, BAI) that it's hard to get really good at one particular mission such as what the Eagle has-AA only. This is true and when an Eagle driver screws up his lone mission he will probably tell you why. They better be good at their lone mission. In the meantime, I'll be enjoying a good variety of missions that keep the pace fast and the boredom low.
Winner: F-16

Jet: F-15 is a huge jet that can be seen with the naked eye more than twice as far away than a Viper. This gives me a HUGE advantage in an ACM fight. F-15 has two engines. That's a nice bonus, but the single engine failures are not very common outside of Luke AFB. As an example, I have been in two F-16 squadrons that have a combined total of 24 years flying the F-16 without a single engine failure! The Viper is a smaller, sleeker, sexier jet. Loaded it will out perform an Eagle every day. My block 30 big mouth puts out 28,000 lbs of thrust to push a jet that is barely over 20k clean. That's a much better thrust to weight ratio.
By the way, the Eagle uses the Pratt & Wimpy motor - the same one that keeps failing- while I enjoy a nice GE motor. I'd say most people that have flown both will say that flying the F-15 v F-16 is like comparing a Caddy to a Ferrari.
Winner: F-16

Air to Ground: F-15C - nothing. F-15E: Good bomber, but all above applies.
Winner: F-16

Air to Air: The Eagle drivers will say that the F-15 is better A-A. That's a little misleading. Here's the way it really works:
1-The Eagles are more proficient at it. It's their only mission.
2-The Eagle is a bigger jet, therefore they have a bigger radar. Unfortunately they forget about the fact that in both jets the limiting factor is the missile, not the radar, so that arguement is moot.
3-No Eagle driver can look me in the eyes and say that they really stand a chance against a Viper in a dogfight. Let me explain: Keeping sight is very important. I can see that barn several miles away. He can't see me until much closer. Once we merge, I can pull 9 g's, He can only give 8.5, and by the way he can only do it for a couple of seconds, whereas I can pull 9 g's and continue to accelerate. We have the same weapons. If we merge 180 degrees out and have no restrictions on either side, I will win that fight EVERY time.
Winner: F-16 (By the way, I have yet to get gunned by a 15)

And regarding the chicks comment: Last I heard that would be a minority yearning in an Eagle squadron-not that there's anything "wrong with that".

 

[XNav]

Something to consider.......

Number of aircraft killed by F-15A,B,C,D's in ACTUAL COMBAT: 104

Number of F-15A,B,C,D's killed by other aircraft in ACTUAL COMBAT: ZERO

 

[av8instyle]

Actually,
Number of Eagles killed in air to air combat is 1 (desert storm, and highly debatable).
Number of Vipers killed in air to air combat is 0.
Viper credited with first 4 AMRAAM kills.
Eagle got the fifth, but it was friendly.
Also, although an F-15 limped back to base, he was still shot by his wingman with a sidewinder. Ouch!

 

[AlbieF15]

Background

F15 lost in desert storm was an F15E from Seymour. No C models lost.

This banter is a bit N/A, since Eagles will continue to get fragged for Air Superiority mission (OCA Sweep, DCA Cap, and no-fly zone enforement) while Vipers will contiue to do some of the same missions but will also have to tackle SEAD, BAI, and AI missions as well. We fight each other in training to hone our skills against a dissimliar adversary. Of course we are all proud of our respective weapon systems, but the fact is in combat we are on the same side.

The helicopter shootdown in N. Iraq was tragic. I think slamming the pilots in question, dispite the mistake, was a cheap shot. Eventually, both left the AF never to fly again. Its easy to question everyone's actions in hindsight but I was a young flightlead at the time and I can't say I would have made the 100% right choice. Can you look yourself in the mirror and know you wouldn't have shot that day? I think since that date we are all much more cautious and conservative.

As for anyone that says "I never got shot by an Eagle.." well...good for you. I've drilled a lot of Vipers in BFM, and I've also been shot a few times (not nearly as many...) as well. Usually the difference is in the experience of the pilot. I would argue if you flew against some experienced Eagle IPs or patch wearers the results might not be so one sided. Maybe on your next WSEP I can learn something from you (and that's not a poke in the ribs...) If you are as good as you claim, look up my buddies in the F15C division when you go to the Viper division for weapons school. I'm sure even if you can punish them they will make you work for it. On the other hand, if you are feeling good about yourself because you can beat up on 300 hour flight lead or young wingman--good for you. I'm sure you are a chick magnet at the bar...

On the same side,

Albie

 

[Mud Eagle]

Re: Background

F15 lost in desert storm was an F15E from Seymour. No C models lost.

Three total E-models were lost during Desert Shield/Storm. Exactly *none* of them were lost to air-air engagements:

One was lost on a training sortie during Desert Shield during a botched LOWAT stern conversion -- both crew (Hook and Poulet, both Rocketeers) killed.

One was lost during the Basrah raid for unknown reasons -- while it may have been AAA, it's suspected that the crew simply threat reacted into the dirt (it was night) -- both crew (Holland and Koritz) killed.

The last one was shot down by an SA-2; both crew (which included the Wing DO) were taken POW.

One the other hand, you're also omitting the only Air-Air kill by an F-15E: A Mi-24 shot down by a GBU-10. This was officially credited as an Air-to-air kill on 2 November 2001.

The "Fox Two Your Flight Lead" occurred on 19 March 1990 up at Emendorf; F-15C #81-0054 was partially damaged (left stab blown off) by an AIM-9P. I'll post a photo here if I can figure out how.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Re: F-16 v F-15

Air to Ground: F-15C - nothing. F-15E: Good bomber, but all above applies.
Winner: F-16

That's a pretty bold statement, making the Strike Eagle the "loser" of the air-to-ground comparison with absolutely zero to back it up, other than "it's big and it has weak engines".

Last I checked, what mattered in air-to-mud was how much ordnance you could put on how many targets and how precisely.

So, let's compare:

Missions: That's nice that you quote so many different missions that the Viper can perform. The 15E can, and does, do the same (and some more), save for SEAD. Winner: Draw

Types of Ordnance: Hmm, the F-15E can carry everything that the Viper can with the exception of the HARM. The F-15E can carry and employ the AGM-130 and GBU-28, which the Viper cannot. Since the Bunker Buster and AGM are quite in vogue with the JFACC these days, I think we can safely say....Winner: Beagle

Amount of Ordnance: The Strike Eagle can tote 20K # of bombs. The Viper can carry somewhere on the order of 15K. Do the math. Did I mention that we can also carry a 3 x 1 air to air load with the CFTs full of bombs and two bags of gas hanging under the wings? Winner: Beagle

Precision Targeting: Yup, some Vipers can employ LANTIRN, but can you *effectively* do it at night and low level? Nope. Low at night is "exclusive turning room" owned by the 15E. How about a self-guide GBU-24 down in the weeds? Didn't think so -- also exclusively 15E territory. How about PGMs? Can you shoot an AGM-130? Nope. How about air-to-ground fighter datalink? If you don't have the Handheld Terminal Unit or your funny little integrated data modem, can you do comm-out XINT or TCT? Nope. Also exclusive Mud Eagle capabilities. Winner: Beagle

So, let's be fair and call a spade a spade. The Viper is a great, low-cost, lightweight multirole fighter. Comparing it to the "heavy hitters" and pontificating about how great it is all around is comparing apples to oranges. Different airplanes for different missions.

 

[av8instyle]

Ouch!

I knew I would get some Eagle feedback, but I didn't realize the hostility and resentment that would pour forth.

Relax Eagle guys, you have a good jet too.

 

[RueterF16]

FB-15

So, let's be fair and call a spade a spade. The Viper is a great, low-cost, lightweight multirole fighter. Comparing it to the "heavy hitters" and pontificating about how great it is all around is comparing apples to oranges. Different airplanes for different missions.

Precision Targeting: Yup, some Vipers can employ LANTIRN, but can you *effectively* do it at night and low level? Nope. Low at night is "exclusive turning room" owned by the 15E. How about a self-guide GBU-24 down in the weeds? Didn't think so -- also exclusively 15E territory.

First, why would you want to be down low at night to begin with?? Second, the Viper does everything the FB-15 does at the cost of only one crewmember.

I can't wait until the EF-15 comes on line, then you mud-eagle boys and girls will have something to squawk about won't you??

 

[XNav]

So once again it is 104 to ZERO, and you can throw in one more Viper guy who doesn't take the time to get his facts straight.

 

[RueterF16]

So you're counting all the Israeli kills in your post of 104 to zero?? Typical of an ExNav, I have my **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** straight brother, done both and know what the real deal is... If you want to tool around (no pun intended) in an FB-15 Then by all means go right ahead. I'll stick with something that outperforms any jet currently on the market.