F15 Vs F16

[ExAF]

I mostly have to agree with Albie. Everyone should remember..."A grape is a grape is a grape, no matter what he is flying" and the age old favorite..."Hamburger in any wrapper is still hamburger." Just to add more fuel to the fire above:
1) You will NEVER see a Beagle without a bunch, and I do mean BUNCH of tanks and ordnance hanging from the underside, so you can only dream of flying BFM in a clean version. It is a Mud Eagle and IMHO the most effective and versatile OCA (ground) and Interdiction machines in the inventory.
2) You will rarely see a viper clean. The only time I ever flew a relatively clean viper in a combat zone was capping over Kuwait and we still had rails, 4 mikes, and an ALQ 131 pod (they weren't letting vipers fly with slammers yet). Now that was a BFM machine, but I sure didn't want to get very far from the tanker or have to do the funky chicken to the merge against a long range radar missile. Most likely the viper will have tanks, LANTIRN & ECM pods, and a couple of Mk-84 hanging from them...try BFMing in that.
3) We can argue which platform is the best till the cows come home, but it will be the Eagles flying the OCA (air), DCA, and HVA protection. Most of them are good at it since it is all they do and all they have to maintain proficient in.
For me, I'd still rather be a jack of all trades and master of none. Variety was the spice of life. FLY, FIGHT AND WIN

 

[av8instyle]

Ok...

The full internal gas F-15E with no external sh-t on it weighs in just under 50K. The 229 puts out 29,000 lbs, and we've got two of 'em. Do the math.

OK, I did the math and maybe I'm a dumb Viper guy, but my calculations don't come up with much thrust/weight ratio difference. Maybe they teach Beagle drivers in RTU that twice the weight and twice the thrust equals twice the turn capability. But I don't think that's really how it works. By the way, how many times will you go to war with something even REMOTELY close to the load out you just mentioned. Guess what? Add a couple of A-120's and a tank or two and I'm at PSAB in two months doing...DCA...something the Vipers don't do. Right?

Better yet, check out the video of the airshow demo that Boeing did with just such a configured F-15E.

OK. I'll do that. Wow. I now believe that the Beagle is the world's greatest dog fighter.

LOWAT cat 3 at Nellis. VLC (100') on flat terrain (egress to the farms) 1.21 Mach and accelerating with pods and CFT's. It is on video with out a flyup. The 422 has done it. Supersonic is not recommended with TFR you get an airspeed caution because it cannot program flyups fast enough (should be a change with an upgrade in the future), but not a prob with flat terrain. Although I am sure it was auto TF as opposed to manual.

Hey cluedo, let me be more specific: WAR TIME

Most likely the viper will have tanks, LANTIRN & ECM pods, and a couple of Mk-84 hanging from them...try BFMing in that.

I sincerely hope you wouldn't really take your tanks and bombs to the merge. If the OCA screws up and I'm carrying bombs and have to go to a merge, I've become a 9G nearly clean jet well before I start turning. Let's not forget the basics.

it will be the Eagles flying the OCA (air), DCA, and HVA protection.

Reference above.

Guys, lets get a little real. The Beagle has it's outstanding points. The Ceagle has it's outstanding points. The same pilot in both jets will lose to the Viper in a knife fight every time. Sorry to have to remind you again.

 

[Batman]

Two engines is better than one...

Did you know that your spinal cord will compact up to an inch during the ejection process? As the number of Vipers falling out of the sky continues to increase, I would opt for an aircraft that has a second, third, or even a forth burner.

PS. Take that advice about buying an acre of land near Luke AFB--you will get your very own Viper with the ejection seat removed for your safety.

 

[av8instyle]

thanks for the clarifying info, Batman

There are really only two types of aircraft: Fighters and Targets. How's it feel to be a target Batman?

 

[JimNtexas]

I haven't flown any air to air for many years now, so perhaps I'd overestimate the current technology.

But if a fighter gets into a "knife fight", hasn't someone really screwed up? In the F-4's we often had no choice but to manuver for a kill, since the Aim-7E was so limited, but aren't those days over?

With the super radars and air-to-air missiles you guys have, why would you ever contemplate a turning fight at all? Isn't that a sucker's game?

As just a taxpayer now, I kind of like the mix of F-16s and F-15Es because they are enough to ensure air supremecy for any likely foe, and yet they can still do useful missions besides air-to-air.

I don't see any particular to keep very many F-15C's around. It's not like we are facing Soviet hordes or anything.

"Yes but what about the new super-duper Russian and European fighters?!!?" Well, is the F-15C really that much more effective than the F-16 or F-15E against them? Enough to justify carrying these expensive single-mission airplanes on the books? I think not.

One idea would be to put and extended range Amram on the AWACS and just cut out the middle man.

Retire the F-15C now. Keep the Viper and buy another 30 Beagles or so to tide us over until the JSf is available in sufficient numbers.

Jim

 

[JonZac]

It is a Mud Eagle and IMHO the most effective and versatile OCA (ground) and Interdiction machines in the inventory.
FLY, FIGHT AND WIN

I don't know guys. Listening to the BUFF guys here at the winter wonderland of Minot, they're the ones gaining air superiority for fighters. CALCM, JDAM and all that. Got to admit the four hour plus loiter time in ENDURING FREEDOM for CAS response is a funny way to use a BUFF.

 

[DHPope93]

Re: thanks for the clarifying info, Batman

There are really only two types of aircraft: Fighters and Targets. How's it feel to be a target Batman?

Hmmmm....I always thought it went like this:
"There are really only two types of aircraft: those that HAVE gas, and those that NEED gas." Guess it's all relative. My favorite fighter? The one in HVAA CAP. Much love to them!

Peace,
DP

Providing full in-flight gas-em-up service around the clock (little to no waiting) to any airplane (properly equipped), no matter how many engines, pods, AIM-120s, GBUs, etc.