F-18F Question

[SIG600]

I've often thought that we should practice combined arms more often, in the sense that a tremendous fighting flight would consist of 2-4 F-15's paired with 2-4 F-16's. Use the F-15 strengths - excellent radar discipline, pre-merge sorting, long range death. At the merge, the F-16's would mop up with point and shoot heaters. Then everyone haul a$$ and do it again the next day.

That was not a new concept. We were tossing it out in the '80's, but the brass never bit on it. I still think it makes sense.

Load up 16's with -9X, follow the Eagles to the merge. Not a bad idea.

 

[Gorilla]

On the A-37 vs F-16 thing - One set of parameters often cited for fighter performance was turn rate, and turn radius. Turn rate is a function of lift. We soon discovered that a Cessna, or pretty much any prop AC, especially an acro bird, has a sustained turn rate and radius that on paper looks like flying death. Add other parameters like thrust to weight, ceiling, wing loading - then you have AC like the U2, which again on paper looks like the greatest fighter of all time.

A good fighter is a total packge. Engines, payload, range, wing loading, avionics, radar, weapons load, and the guy flying it. Everything is a compromise. Improve one function, only at the expense of another.

As for eXAF "Burgers and Grape" quote - I've heard it many times, but it only goes so far. The greatest stick of all time cannot beat an RTU student if the equipment is grossly mismatched. An example... I was with a group of vastly experienced air-air Holloman AT-38B IP's when the call came from Luke to support their F-16 RTU, mainly because they couldn't find anybody better. We were their last choice for DACT.

Noob F-16's pounded us mercilessly despite every trick, every subtle maneuver we could come up with. It was very frustrating for us, and probably boring for the Luke IP's. So Yeager in his P-51 would be instantly smoked by the lowliest student in a modern fighter.

 

[SIG600]

Noob F-16's pounded us mercilessly despite every trick, every subtle maneuver we could come up with. It was very frustrating for us, and probably boring for the Luke IP's. So Yeager in his P-51 would be instantly smoked by the lowliest student in a modern fighter.

I agree to an extent. Experience counts for a lot... especially BFM. A 20 hour/year SU-27 is gonna be a supersonic cheerleader in a 1V1 engagement. Anything more complex than that and he's probably gonna have a full on 5 alarm helmet fire. Plus I would bet a pay check he's gonna go level across the horizon post merge. On paper a Hornet should crush an F-5, but I've been in the hud of one a few times. The guy at the stick I think is the most important factor.

Gorilla to add to what you were saying about numbers on paper, and the actual package. You should read John Boyd's bio. Great book and goes into detail on his development of EM, and breaking the higher/faster/farther mindset.

 

[Gorilla]

Gorilla to add to what you were saying about numbers on paper, and the actual package. You should read John Boyd's bio. Great book and goes into detail on his development of EM, and breaking the higher/faster/farther mindset.

I did read the book; I agree, it's greatness. Anyone interested in military fighters should read it, you won't be sorry: http://www.amazon.com/Boyd-Fighter-Pilot-Changed-War/dp/0316881465

After reading it, I was in awe of this man. One of the deepest military thinkers of this century, and probably the least known.

 

[SIG600]

Ya, the guy was brilliant.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Noob F-16's pounded us mercilessly despite every trick, every subtle maneuver we could come up with. It was very frustrating for us, and probably boring for the Luke IP's.

Interesting. I just finished a tour as a Smurf IP and had quite the opposite experience in flying DACT vs both Vipers and Eagles.

Although some of the time we were called dead well prior to getting WVR, an equal amount of time we were able to get to the merge untargeted and unobserved. The small RCS and size of the Smurf meant that we were able to get boresight heat shots and gun tracks many a time.

My "best" fight was during a WIC support deployment on a F-15C tac intercept ride. My 2-ship of Smurfs was simulating MiG-21s but shooting Archers. We performed a "tactical" notch/press at the standard range, and I ended up merging high aspect with the WIC IP. We passed inside 1000' and I could clearly see his nugget looking out the opposite side of the canopy. Even in the mighty T-38 with my 6G / 4500' turn, I was able to call a kill on the IP.

Of course, on the other 4 engagements we died gloriously well before the merge like the pinko communist bastards we were.

 

[SIG600]

It's frustrating finding an F-5 at the merge... I can't imagine trying to see a T-38.

 

[Gorilla]

Interesting. I just finished a tour as a Smurf IP and had quite the opposite experience in flying DACT vs both Vipers and Eagles.

I forgot to mention that our Luke RTU support was pure perch setups, both offensive and defensive, nothing outside of 6,000'. Doing proper 4v4, we had similar success, half due to the incredibly good camo and small size of the Smurf Jet, and half being experience and treachery by the Smurf pilots.

Remind me sometime to take a pic of my "Smurf Driver" patch. It was a clone of the stock F-15 Eagle Driver patch, except it had a smurf head. Best patch seen to date.

 

[jetblast18]

Wing fence

In the latest issue of COMBAT AIRCRAFT there are photos of the EA-18 Growler and there appears to be a wing fence located on the top of each wing. I have yet to see any regular Super Hornets with them. Are these unique to the Growler or will they be included on all Super Hornets at some point?

 

[Bjammin]

I did some testing on the EA-18G and I believe the ALQ-99 jamming pods they have had to upload effect the aerodynamics a little so the fence was nessesary.
The ALQ-99 pods were never meant to be on there but until the replacement pod is out of development it's the only jamming pod available.

Very awesome jet.