ExpressJet Pilots Reach Tentative Agreement

[Nova]

I don't know any 5 year fo's that don't or don't want to bid captain.

The biggest problems aren't now but in 1 year time when the last Flowback is gone and the 112 have followed. Our seniority list could become more still than anyone can imagine after that. Now the current 3 and 4 year FO's are looking to be 5, 6, 7 or 8 year FO's.

It's important to look beyond cashing the retro check as whether this contract serves the needs of our most junior pilots as well as the senior for the contract duration. In 2009-10 will the FO's here be thankful that they'll have topped out at $44/hour and have waited 8 years to break $40k a year?

Stating that FO's have a future Captain slot to look forward to ease their financial needs is based on false hope and is petty. "I got mine so eventually you'll get yours" ??? It appears no matter how much the Captain ranks stated their intentions to not leave the FO's behind they still don't understand the struggles of 4+ year FO. Having not walked a mile in those shoes must have clouded their vision.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

The biggest problems aren't now but in 1 year time when the last Flowback is gone and the 112 have followed. Our seniority list could become more still than anyone can imagine after that. Now the current 3 and 4 year FO's are looking to be 5, 6, 7 or 8 year FO's.

It's important to look beyond cashing the retro check as whether this contract serves the needs of our most junior pilots as well as the senior for the contract duration. In 2009-10 will the FO's here be thankful that they'll have topped out at $44/hour and have waited 8 years to break $40k a year?

Stating that FO's have a future Captain slot to look forward to ease their financial needs is based on false hope and is petty. "I got mine so eventually you'll get yours" ??? It appears no matter how much the Captain ranks stated their intentions to not leave the FO's behind they still don't understand the struggles of 4+ year FO. Having not walked a mile in those shoes must have clouded their vision.

That is precisely why we fought hard to add 2 years to the FO longevity scale.

-Neal

 

[Nova]

That is precisely why we fought hard to add 2 years to the FO longevity scale.

-Neal

And for that I'm thankful Neal but it's only half the issue IMHO.

 

[JetLinkin Park]

And for that I'm thankful Neal but it's only half the issue IMHO.

I agree with Nova Neal. It's hard to get excited about a longevity scale when there's no pay scale. JMHO.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

I agree with Nova Neal. It's hard to get excited about a longevity scale when there's no pay scale. JMHO.

Here are the longevity scale increases:

First Officers
nYear 1-2 49.0%
nYear 2-3 6.2%
nYear 3-4 6.7%
nYear 5-8 3.0%



Those increases above do not factor in the 12/1 raise of 2.5% per year either. FO's, year over year, get far greater increases than Captains and furthermore, FO's will receive a bigger increase on DOS than Captains.

You said there is "no pay scale" but obviously what I think you meant to say is that you don't like the start point. We did the best we could on that starting point, however.

-Neal

 

[Ace McCoy]

Deja vu all over again

I just started reading this thread today and boy does it remind me of the (not so) good old days of last January here at Mesaba.

It starts off with the annoucement of the TA and everyone is happy.

"Hooray, I hear it is industry leading!"

This quickly morphs into "Wait a minute maybe it is not so great"

Which then leads to " this thing is going down in flames for sure!! The pay rates sux0r and I'm voting no. 80% will vote NO!"

An ALPA rep gets on and says "wait a minute go to the road shows to hear what we have to say. And remember it is all about the W2."

After the road show the captains (who have more to lose) and those from IAH (Most of our yes votes were from MSP based captains or people who were from MSP) respond, "I'm voting yes this is the best we can do."

The FO's respond "You're sell outs! we need to strike!"

And in the end the road shows convince just enough FO's to vote yes and the thing passes 66-33.

When I first saw Mesaba's TA I thought it was going down 80-20. After a week I thought it was going to be a close no vote. Then once I went to a road show I knew it was all over...it was gonna pass 60-40. The actual number was 66% yes.

It is (hilarious, uncanny, scary sad? Fill in the blank) how Coex is following the same curve we did.

So yes Coex guys and gals, pretty much no matter what this thing will pass. With the exception of Comair all regionals pass the first one. It is super disappointing to some that your next chance won't be for six more years but don't worry the pain goes away after a few months. It's been about 9 months for me and it doesn't hurt (much) anymore.

Good luck y'all

 

[Nova]

Your probably right Ace. Just as the union reps. and pilots said we wouldn't be another Mesaba the pilot group will be herded like sheep and it'll pass with a YES vote.

It appears that the balls of this group have shrunk over the last 2 years. Now more than ever my hat is off to the Comair pilot group for what they did.

 

[contract2002]

Your probably right Ace. Just as the union reps. and pilots said we wouldn't be another Mesaba the pilot group will be herded like sheep and it'll pass with a YES vote.

It appears that the balls of this group have shrunk over the last 2 years. Now more than ever my hat is off to the Comair pilot group for what they did.

If you're not part of the solution....

 

[Nova]

you work for Mesa?

 

[Sam Fisher]

you work for Mesa?

Exactly. Sadly, many pilots don't realize the negative effects of "pattern bargaining."

Sam

 

[Hosed COEX]

Fair enough. BTW, I see you're a check airman (or so your sig mentions). I think I'd be voting yes to if I was making around 70-80 hr. (includes over-ride) and was about to swallow a very large retro check.

As for myself (and a lot of other FO's), I'm pullin down and entire $27/hr @ min. guarantee on reserve. Oh yeah, don't forget my $200 a month in per diem. As for retro, well that 2 + years I spent on the street pretty much answers that one. So what am I getting by voting yes........ not much.

SO MUCH FOR NOT LEAVING FO'S BEHIND.

If you are a second year FO and you are bidding reserve then you are doing so by choice. Every second year FO in this company can at least hold a relief line, even in CLE. Bid a line. Do better. The new rate, $32/hr @ 85 hrs @ 12 months + 6.5% 401K match/B-plan + 7% profit sharing = 37194.91 per year. Quit distorting the facts.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

I just started reading this thread today and boy does it remind me of the (not so) good old days of last January here at Mesaba.

It starts off with the annoucement of the TA and everyone is happy.

"Hooray, I hear it is industry leading!"

This quickly morphs into "Wait a minute maybe it is not so great"

Which then leads to " this thing is going down in flames for sure!! The pay rates sux0r and I'm voting no. 80% will vote NO!"

An ALPA rep gets on and says "wait a minute go to the road shows to hear what we have to say. And remember it is all about the W2."

After the road show the captains (who have more to lose) and those from IAH (Most of our yes votes were from MSP based captains or people who were from MSP) respond, "I'm voting yes this is the best we can do."

The FO's respond "You're sell outs! we need to strike!"

And in the end the road shows convince just enough FO's to vote yes and the thing passes 66-33.

When I first saw Mesaba's TA I thought it was going down 80-20. After a week I thought it was going to be a close no vote. Then once I went to a road show I knew it was all over...it was gonna pass 60-40. The actual number was 66% yes.

It is (hilarious, uncanny, scary sad? Fill in the blank) how Coex is following the same curve we did.

So yes Coex guys and gals, pretty much no matter what this thing will pass. With the exception of Comair all regionals pass the first one. It is super disappointing to some that your next chance won't be for six more years but don't worry the pain goes away after a few months. It's been about 9 months for me and it doesn't hurt (much) anymore.

Good luck y'all

Excellent description of the situation.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Could someone then post the new pay rates for FO's and Captains?

 

[TOGA]

One "no" vote here . . .

. . . on principle alone. They can afford much more, we're worth much more. Doubling the pay for all three crewmembers would cost each pax less than $2/leg. We're making as much as SWA at the worst time in the history of the airline industry. Oil is NOT at a record high . . . look at the period from the mid-seventies thru the early eighties, and adjust for inflation. The best-paid pilots in the industry today are paid less than half what their 30-years-prior counterparts were (again, adjust for inflation). Like I said, on principle alone . . . "no". Granted, corporate flying is a whole different animal, but do you guys realize what a FIRST YEAR Captain makes on the Legacy (EMB-135BJ)? $99k/yr, average. Someone, somewhere, someday has to stop the race to the bottom.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

. . . on principle alone. They can afford much more, we're worth much more. Doubling the pay for all three crewmembers would cost each pax less than $2/leg.

TOGA,

There is no truth, hope, or justice in negotiations and you certainly never get what is fair, right, or what you are worth. You only get what you negotiate and what you negotiate is usually a result of whatever relative leverage you have or don't have. To vote no on a philosophical reasoning is fine and it is your choice and your vote, but I strongly urge you to attend a road show presentation if you haven't already.

-Neal