ExpressJet Pilots Reach Tentative Agreement

[Nova]

The FO's as Neal has already stated are getting a much greater percentage of hard pay rate increases than the Captains are. So, how are the Captains leaving the FO's behind?

That is true because the FO's were even further back on the last contract than this TA. Plus throwing $1/hr more at a $30/hr payrate gives you a higher percentage (3%) increase than if it was added to a $60/hr payrate (1.5%). So rather than state that FO's are only getting $2 raise on a TA it can be spun into "a greater percentage payraise than the captains."

Most FO's on our seniority list, not including the 700 to be hired by '06, may top out this 8 year scale on TA1. Our list could look a lot like American Eagle's.

As the NC stated numerous times everything has a cost. There is a big pool of money and NC and company decide how to divide it up. Was there no way that the FO rates could have been 60% of captain pay? No. It would have been as easy as lowering the Captain rates by roughly 1% to raise the FO pay to ALPA 60% standard. Why wasn't that done? Someone is being left behind and it isn't the Captains.

 

[skootertrash]

Ok so what your saying is because they didn't make 60% then we should leave the FO rates the same and lower captains?


Your a stupid Donkey

 

[Captain X]

Why didn't the negotiating committe petition for a different mediator. I'm not sure, but I think they can do this. We need a release and 2 Jack@sses from the NMB are holding us back.

You can clear up your lack of understanding in this area by a quick look at www.nmb.gov

The board is the board. The mediator is the mediator.

The mediator overseeing our negotiations has nothing to do with getting a release.

The mediator is one of many government employees who do this for a living and they have limited power. They have to report to the three people (the board) appointed by the white house who hold the true authority.

Ultimately, the mediator is not the one who makes the decisions. The board does and replacing the mediator would have no effect on the outcome.

 

[Nova]

Ok so what your saying is because they didn't make 60% then we should leave the FO rates the same and lower captains?


Your a stupid Donkey

No you freakin' tool. By taking 1% from the captain rates and adding that money to the FO rates you'd end up with FO rates at 60% of the captain rates. Idiot....

 

[Skyward]

Good luck with that one Nova.

 

[badog]

Nova

Until you can convince upper management to take a pay cut, the TA will not change. I still say what do we have to bargain with? Fixed costs do not change, (THAT MUCH) the only thing variable is labor costs. Fuel, MX, etc. are fixed costs.
Reduce the salaries of Ream and Nides and there's our pay increase, GET IT? I'm sorry if I don't have all of the terminology down It makes me feel inferior, yeah right! I agree that we are worth way more than what they offer. BUT what can we do about it? Flame away.

B.D.

 

[rattler]

You seem to forget the big profits the company has been posting, quarter..after quarter..after...you get the point.

Also, they are paying back CAL in record time. That is a variable cost.

Now for a question about the CPA. Do we pay directly for our fuel? This has been a big discussion lately in the crew rooms, and no seems to have the answer. I thought CAL paid for it. If so why do we care about fuel costs?

 

[surplus1]

The mediator overseeing our negotiations has nothing to do with getting a release.

The mediator is one of many government employees who do this for a living and they have limited power. They have to report to the three people (the board) appointed by the white house who hold the true authority.

Ultimately, the mediator is not the one who makes the decisions. The board does and replacing the mediator would have no effect on the outcome.

With all due respect, most of what you say above is ture, however it is NOT true that the mediator "has nothing to do with getting a release."

The Board members ARE the ones that make the final decision but they do not do so in a vacuum. They receive "recommendations" from the mediator and those recommendations are given a great deal of weight in the decision.

It is also true that, behind the scenes - not in public, the also receive recommendations from the national union. While not "official" you can bet your last dollar that if the union does not want you to get a release you will not get one.

In theory the union has no "influence" over the Board. In the real world it has more influence than probably anyone else. That influence will not get you a release if the Board is opposed. However, if the union is opposed there will be no release. BTW, the Board also gets recommendations from the Company.

The decisions of the Board are made behind closed doors. The "advice" that it gets, both from the mediator and especially from the union, is also behind closed doors. So is the advice from the company.

What you see (and hear) is not always what you get. Believe it or not these decisions are "political" and very little about politics is "straight".

Collective bargaining is a contest of wills just as much as a question of economics and politics. More often than not, the weakest link in the process is the employee grop, which always has difficulty in achieving consensus; too many opinions from too many people. In contrast the Company is totally united and so, in most cases, is the national union. If the pilot group is in possession of true solidarity it can win the contest of wills, but the odds are not in its favor.

As an example of what I'm trying to say I offer you this thread. I see a great deal of disagreement among the pilots and this is only a small sampling of the group. You aren't going to find a thread that shows disagreement between management. You aren't going to find visible disagreement from the national union. You are having "road shows" because the NC and your MEC agree and there is no public sign of in fighting.

I don't work for your airline so I can't get an accurate "read" on your group. However, I will go out on a limb and say: If your solidarity is indicated by this thread you're in trouble.

A lot of you are using my airline (Comair) as an example and I don't mean about the terms of our contract. Everyone knows we had a strike and how long it lasted. We voted down two "last and best" offers from the company and in both cases the NO votes were well over 90%, one before the strike and one during the strike. Our MEC and NC never recommended a "yes" vote and never had a TA until the 3rd "offer" came from the Company. long after the strike was in progress. There was never any question of solidarity going into the battle. And there was none before vote # 3. It took nearly 3 months of walking the picket before anyone could get a 60% + "yes" from the pilots or their leaders.

I'm not bragging at all, just stating the facts. The only time a "strike vote" really matters is after the strike begins.

Think about it.

 

[vectors2final]

Amen.

There is no solidarity in this pilot group. I've never seen anything like it. I can only hope that reason will take over in the days to come or we really will be in trouble.

 

[minrest]

rattler,

I believe the reason that we need to be concerned with fuel costs is that they are beating up CAL. If CAL goes bankrupt you can expect an immediate change to the CPA, much like what United did with ACA (now Indy) and Skywest after going bankrupt. Keep in mind that XJT is negotiating future rates with CAL. Fuel prices will be a big piece of the puzzle moving forward.

-minrest

 

[Nova]

Until you can convince upper management to take a pay cut, the TA will not change. I still say what do we have to bargain with? Fixed costs do not change, (THAT MUCH) the only thing variable is labor costs. Fuel, MX, etc. are fixed costs.
Reduce the salaries of Ream and Nides and there's our pay increase, GET IT? I'm sorry if I don't have all of the terminology down It makes me feel inferior, yeah right! I agree that we are worth way more than what they offer. BUT what can we do about it? Flame away. B.D.

Our negotiations never have nor will be dependant upon or as a result of the salary of management. What would give you that idea? And you do you honestly think taking $100,000 from Ream would even put a dent in a $$ increase for a TA2? You might want to look over the numbers required to even finance TA1.

What you seem to be missing is that the reason FO isn't at 60% of captain pay isn't because of Management or some sort of economic issue. The reason it's not 60% is that those at the Negotiating table decided not to divide up the money that way.

 

[TOGA]

Rattler -

The pay math you did a couple pages back was beautiful . . . and hideous. Beautiful, because I get the clear impression that very few of us are thinking that way . . . real numbers. Hideous, because . . . well, it just sucks!



Regarding our pay rates having anything to do with mgmt's pay . . .wrong.

Someone else wrote 'some people are being left behind, and it isn't the Captains' . . . puhleez, man. We're all getting screwed here! Wow, my salary as a fifth year Captain is gonna SKYROCKET to about $51,400 . . . yippe-fcuking-kiyay (or however you spell that)!!

 

[Nova]

I agree everyone's getting the screw job on this one but with all the attention that was given to FO pay over the last year it seems to stick out like a sore thumb.