Expressjet concessionary LOA/TA out

[nerjdriver]

Two years ago you guys voted to extend your contract to help the company out. You did it and management can't make it work. You guys can't keep playing the beaten' wife with your management.

So we should be renegotiating a CBA in today's world? Did you know that the extension came with raises, improved reserve rules? Probably not. Ill take my chances in 2010 when we renegotiate the CBA, hopefully there will be an airline to do it with. If we "take it back" I almost guarantee you, there wont be. There is a time and place for things, now is neither.

 

[donvag]

So we should be renegotiating a CBA in today's world? Did you know that the extension came with raises, improved reserve rules? Probably not. Ill take my chances in 2010 when we renegotiate the CBA, hopefully there will be an airline to do it with. If we "take it back" I almost guarantee you, there wont be. There is a time and place for things, now is neither.

I know what happened, I was there and I voted for the original contract. And I believe the pilot group was tricked into the LOA that had to do with the charter flying. People voted for a raise that only affected a 3%, the charter flying.

 

[Nevets]

Don't forget too, if for some reason you were to still go into BK, if this gets passed you have a new starting point for the company to demand concessions. Like at Comair, when the pay freeze was voted in and then we went into BK, we got no credit for the pay freeze. The company needed pay cuts came from the freeze pay. Double cuts. I could see this as a plan from a management that knows it will be in BK soon. Ask for a small pay cut now, and get another in a few months from the courts.

Dave

Your assuming it would be a chapter 11 filling instead of a chapter 7 situation.

 

[Nevets]

Two years ago you guys voted to extend your contract to help the company out. You did it and management can't make it work. You guys can't keep playing the beaten' wife with your management.

That extension was more beneficial to the pilots than it was to management. ALL pilots benefited by larger raises every Dec 1 than the previous years, lucrative pay for charter pilots, and improved work rules as well. Not to mention the fact that the pilots wouldn't have to be in the middle of section 6 negotiations right now. That alone was worth just an extension without the charter stuff. Just look at the pay rate someone would be making on Dec 1, 09 pre LOA 8 vs LOA 9. Its not that much difference.

This was all taken into account by the MEC. That is, the timeline of section 6 negotiations, the charter stuff, the improvement to work rules for line pilots AND instructors.

 

[PCL_128]

I just dont understand the "stick it to em" attitude you guys have.

And we don't understand your "bend over" attitude. Why do pilots continue to act as willing accomplices in management's incompetence?! This is ridiculous!

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I'm getting tired of hearing people who don't work for my company or who have been furloughed thumping their chest and telling everyone else how they need to vote. It's easy to be a tough guy when you have nothing to lose. I'll do my own research and make my own decision... you have zero influence.. so give it a rest. Thanks.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Even Mesa negotiated improvements to thier agreement. You meant to tell me that Xjet pilots do not have the fortitude of Mesa pilots.

 

[Bako Cap]

Your assuming it would be a chapter 11 filling instead of a chapter 7 situation.

Chapter 7 is too expensive for CAL, but chapter 11 would work out just fine. It is cheaper for CAL to keep 190 aircraft flying than have them disappear over a weekend and scramble to have someone else fly them. This is why Mesa is still around, cheaper to keep them hanging on than replacing them.

 

[Captain X]

Maybe the fact that ALPA national agreed to this piece of ******************** shows what they really think of "taking it back."

National is a bunch of hypocrits.

The poor knowledge of how ALPA actually operates never ceases to amaze me.

 

[Nevets]

Even Mesa negotiated improvements to thier agreement. You meant to tell me that Xjet pilots do not have the fortitude of Mesa pilots.

I beleive Mesa is still making money. XJT is not.

 

[Nevets]

Chapter 7 is too expensive for CAL, but chapter 11 would work out just fine. It is cheaper for CAL to keep 190 aircraft flying than have them disappear over a weekend and scramble to have someone else fly them. This is why Mesa is still around, cheaper to keep them hanging on than replacing them.

I don't believe CAL has a say on what chapter of the bk code the XJT BOD chooses. Also, chapter 11 doesn't mean that XJT ceases to exist if there are no creditors to keep it afloat during reorganization especially with the credit crunch and the current condition of the airline industry.

 

[Bako Cap]

I don't believe CAL has a say on what chapter of the bk code the XJT BOD chooses. Also, chapter 11 doesn't mean that XJT ceases to exist if there are no creditors to keep it afloat during reorganization especially with the credit crunch and the current condition of the airline industry.

I mean that CAL will offer to help in the restructure as a goodwill gesture. They will use buzz phrases, "the combined synergizes of our long and fruitful relationship and common goals of providing the best to our passengers." bla bla bla...

Either CAL will help with keeping XJT out of BK, or they will help in the restructure. Chapter 7 is not an option that CAL wants for XJT, even at $1.60 per share that is equivelant to $0.16 per share last week.

 

[Nevets]

I mean that CAL will offer to help in the restructure as a goodwill gesture. They will use buzz phrases, "the combined synergizes of our long and fruitful relationship and common goals of providing the best to our passengers." bla bla bla...

Either CAL will help with keeping XJT out of BK, or they will help in the restructure. Chapter 7 is not an option that CAL wants for XJT, even at $1.60 per share that is equivelant to $0.16 per share last week.

I see what you mean. I do beleive that the XJT BOD would go for that than chapter 7. But their help in restructuring may be in keeping XJT afloat long enough to exercise they bk wind down clause in the new cpa.

 

[donvag]

You guys need new management, plain and simple. You guys have to stop believing yourselfs that you have the best management out there.

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

OK, Express Jetters, here is your chance to hold the line and save the profession.

No fair dissing the other regionals and blaming them for your woes. You say they fail to step up; now it's your turn at bat.

HA! Typical young kid's view... If XJT guys vote no and the company goes tits up, guess what: They held their ground, lost their jobs, and CHQ, Skyworst, and Mesa will have come in to pick up the pieces.
So your advice just killed a good company and gave the flying to cheaper companies...Not exactly saving the profession, now, are they?
There is no good choice in this economy, other than survival. Say hello to my friends at Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros.

 

[ERJFO]

Im voting yes on this, because it benefits ME the most.

I won't vote if you won't... DEAL???

 

[Axel]

HA! Typical young kid's view... If XJT guys vote no and the company goes tits up, guess what: They held their ground, lost their jobs, and CHQ, Skyworst, and Mesa will have come in to pick up the pieces.
So your advice just killed a good company and gave the flying to cheaper companies...Not exactly saving the profession, now, are they?
There is no good choice in this economy, other than survival. Say hello to my friends at Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros.

Hardly a kid. Almost a dinosaur, actually.

Again, I wish nothing but the best for the Express Jetters and hope you all make the decisions that are best for your situation.

However, you are now faced with the same decisions that have faced the pilot groups the vocal few among you have been so quick to second guess. Contracts were negotiated in the face of slow economies and in the face of alter ego airlines. you have your own set of problems, but the situations are more similar than they are different.

So I say again: You have lambasted the other pilot groups for not holding the line under pressure, now it is your turn at bat. Show us what you've got.

 

[nerjdriver]

I won't vote if you won't... DEAL???

Pinky swear?

 

[nerjdriver]

Your assuming it would be a chapter 11 filling instead of a chapter 7 situation.

Hoping Ch. 11. I think its the liklier of the two, but ya never know.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

So I say again: You have lambasted the other pilot groups for not holding the line under pressure, now it is your turn at bat. Show us what you've got.

I've lambasted no one.. I have better things to do with my time.. and I'll make the decision that is best for myself and my family. As Uncle Bunkle said, sinking the ship isn't going to fix a dam thing with the industry.

 

[lindsaya99]

I beleive Mesa is still making money. XJT is not.

Nope.

Mesa cutting workforce as revenue drops - (Article 10-07-2008)
Mesa cutting workforce as revenue drops
Tuesday October 7, 2008
Facing a projected $250 million drop in revenue this year, Mesa Air Group is finding it impossible to "support the same level of overhead" and is reducing staff across the board, Chairman Jonathan Ornstein told ATWOnline yesterday.

"The company will be smaller this year and we needed to right-size the workforce to the new level of reductions," Ornstein said. "Reductions were made throughout the company at all levels. It was a very difficult process for everyone, me in particular." He did not disclose further details.

MAG reported a $3.7 million loss in its fiscal third quarter ended June 30, reversed from a $2.6 million profit in the year-ago period (ATWOnline, Aug. 20). In early August Delta Air Lines terminated its service agreement with Mesa subsidiary Freedom Airlines (ATWOnline, Aug. 6).

by Sandra Arnoult

 

[Nevets]

So I say again: You have lambasted the other pilot groups for not holding the line under pressure, now it is your turn at bat. Show us what you've got.

Just because a few people don't know why Mesa has a crappy contract, for example, doesn't mean that all XJT pilots have to show anybody anything. There are bad apples everywhere. Anyways, captain rates will still be industry leading and fo rates will be in the top third.

 

[Nevets]

Hoping Ch. 11. I think its the liklier of the two, but ya never know.

I hope its neither.

 

[Turtlesfly]

The poor knowledge of how ALPA actually operates never ceases to amaze me.

Okay smartass, why don't you explain exactly what Prater and national is doing to tell us NOT to accept this, since they ran on the "taking it back" ticket to get elected. To whom my dues go to represent me.

The effect is what I said is still correct. If we vote it, they will sign it.

 

[flylike44]

once all you kool aid chugging losers vote this in you can do us all a favor and can the "we're the best, nanny nanny boo boo" act.

 

[Turtlesfly]

Im voting yes on this, because it benefits ME the most.

Well Mr. ME, everybody's true colors show at some point.

 

[Turtlesfly]

once all you kool aid chugging losers vote this in you can do us all a favor and can the "we're the best, nanny nanny boo boo"
act.

WE ARE HELPING YOU BY DOING IT. Wow, people just don't get it. Thanks for not even being appreciative of us "no" voters who ARE willing to risk our jobs to help you.

 

[Nevets]

Okay smartass, why don't you explain exactly what Prater and national is doing to tell us NOT to accept this, since they ran on the "taking it back" ticket to get elected. To whom my dues go to represent me.

The effect is what I said is still correct. If we vote it, they will sign it.

Prater can make up whatever slogan he wants but the fact of the matter is that no one other than the XJT MEC can make the decision to negotiate or ratify a TA. Prater or any of the national officers will NOT tell you to accept it because they have no authority to do so.

 

[Nevets]

once all you kool aid chugging losers vote this in you can do us all a favor and can the "we're the best, nanny nanny boo boo" act.

By the way, IF this is ratified, captains will still be at the top of industry and FOs will be in the top third. Just the facts.

 

[PCL_128]

Thanks for not even being appreciative of us "no" voters who ARE willing to risk our jobs to help you.

Actually, many of us are appreciative. Thank you for standing up for yourselves and your profession. I hope you end up being in the majority, but I have my doubts.