Expressjet announcement today

[PCL_128]

You typin' from the unemployment line?
PBR

Hate to disappoint you, but my job is still safe.

 

[lowlycfi]

Jeez you two, get a room.

 

[ToiletDuck]

You're saying: pilots' pay singularly determines the fate of the company.

News flash: you're wrong.

Pouring MILLIONS into a failed business venture, branded, is why they are now coming crying for pay cuts.

Or the new contract CAL made them sign.

 

[ToiletDuck]

Yes, I would rather lose my job to maintain a good standard of living than dumb my wages down to just have the job.

How good is your standard of living without a job? Most idiotic post ever. Ever pilot that flies for the major has taken concessions to help their company and to secure their jobs, as much as possible, yet for some reason you think you're different? I laugh at your ignorance.

 

[Hypoxik]

The original CPA and the one CAL would have given SKW ended with CAL still controlling every single a/c.

Now XJT will have the control, per the new CPA.
When that 7 years is over we can choose as we please what to do with them.

Remember XJT was a spin off yet CAL still had control of the biggest assets we have...a/c.

Now we do.

 

[ToiletDuck]

The original CPA and the one CAL would have given SKW ended with CAL still control every single a/c.

Now XJT will have the control, per the new CPA.
When that 7 years is over we can choose as we please what to do with them.

Remember XJT was a spin off yet CAL still had control of the biggest assets we have...a/c.

Now we do.

And that does what? XJT still doesn't own them and still has to pay lease on them. CAL still got you guys to underbid everyone. Branded is closing, 500+ furloughed, JR got put in his place, and stock is 1/18th of what it was a year ago... But you've got the A/C. Or you think you do. XJT still doesn't own them.

 

[PCL_128]

Ever pilot that flies for the major has taken concessions to help their company and to secure their jobs, as much as possible, yet for some reason you think you're different?

And those pilots were wrong to do so. I would rather watch my company cease to exist than give them one red cent from my paycheck. I don't pay for fuel.

 

[veneratio]

Honestly, I think there will be no concessions from the pilot group!!!

 

[WalterSobchak]

And those pilots were wrong to do so. I would rather watch my company cease to exist than give them one red cent from my paycheck. I don't pay for fuel.

...and it is that attitude that puts thousands of non-pilot employees...people who are barely getting by as it is...out of a job.

If it goes down that way at AirTran...may you DIAF. I have too many close friends at AirTran that can't afford to lose their jobs because of the old school "it's all about me" attitude.

 

[PCL_128]

...and it is that attitude that puts thousands of non-pilot employees...people who are barely getting by as it is...out of a job.

I support them when they're fighting for a fair contract, so I expect the same from them in return. I don't want to see anyone take concessions or lose their jobs.

 

[ToiletDuck]

And those pilots were wrong to do so. I would rather watch my company cease to exist than give them one red cent from my paycheck. I don't pay for fuel.

You'd rather there be tens of thousands of pilots on the street with no jobs, tons of debt, and mouths to feed rather than take a cut? Sorry but this isn't your company making money hand over fist trying to screw you like in the past few years. This is your company trying to stay afloat. You keep that attitude up you'll end up with jack sh!t in life.

 

[PCL_128]

You'd rather there be tens of thousands of pilots on the street with no jobs, tons of debt, and mouths to feed rather than take a cut? Sorry but this isn't your company making money hand over fist trying to screw you like in the past few years. This is your company trying to stay afloat. You keep that attitude up you'll end up with jack sh!t in life.

Pilot paycuts have never saved a company, and they never will. You've bought into management's bulls---. Pathetic.

 

[Turtlesfly]

...and it is that attitude that puts thousands of non-pilot employees...people who are barely getting by as it is...out of a job.

If it goes down that way at AirTran...may you DIAF. I have too many close friends at AirTran that can't afford to lose their jobs because of the old school "it's all about me" attitude.

yeah, so why don't you take a 65% paycut yourself if you're such a sympathetic company man?

If you were earning $109,000 as a captain and it goes to $31,000 - that'd be okay with you, right? After all - you're saving the company!

 

[Superpilot92]

yeah, so why don't you take a 65% paycut yourself if you're such a sympathetic company man?

If you were earning $109,000 as a captain and it goes to $31,000 - that'd be okay with you, right? After all - you're saving the company!

Agreed, pay is lower now than ever before. There is no room for further pay cuts. Complete BS to except anything lower.

 

[3blade]

There was no room for 145$ barell oil either.

 

[11thHour]

To give concessions on threat of bankruptcy is foolish. Fuel keeps going up, and up. Sure, it may go down a bit for a time, but historically it keeps climbing. So there will always be 'justification', from managements view, for concessions. It must stop. The line must be drawn and not crossed, even if it sinks the company. Yes - I mean that! Every time pilots agree to concessions, you train management to expect to be able to get even more future concessions. If no pilot gave in, ever, under any threat, guess what - management would finally learn to respect us! I realize jobs may be lost due to this - so be it, even if mine! Pilots seems so damn afraid to do anything but fly! I've got no problem seeking employment outside this industry to pay the bills. There's no point flying for any airline anyway if the pay keeps going the way it is. It must stop, and pilots need to grow the balls to say hell no to concessions.

 

[WalterSobchak]

yeah, so why don't you take a 65% paycut yourself if you're such a sympathetic company man?

If you were earning $109,000 as a captain and it goes to $31,000 - that'd be okay with you, right? After all - you're saving the company!

I agree...65% is unacceptable. If the company can't make it without the pilots taking that deep of a paycut...then, yes...perhaps the company should die. The lack of a viable business plan is blatantly obvious and is likely going to die anyway.

I was speaking from idea of much lower cuts than 65%..hell, lower than 15%...and the complete lack of being somewhat open to that being a last resort in order to at least buy a reprieve for those in jobs that pay much less than yours.

It's not something I'm "OK" with...but there is a certain level that can be accepted for the sake of the thousands who NEED that job and are also giving something up to stay employed.

 

[PCL_128]

I agree...65% is unacceptable.

Just 1% is unacceptable.

 

[duck_killer]

Just 1% is unacceptable.

Lets get something clear. You used to work for pinnacle, an airline with such a substandard contract that they needed to hire street Captains to staff undercutting CPAs. Then you moved on to be one of the lowest paid FO's in the industry for your aircarft type. Where the h$ll do you get off telling other people that taking a hit to have a job is unacceptable?

 

[txpilot1974]

Lets get something clear. You used to work for pinnacle, an airline with such a substandard contract that they needed to hire street Captains to staff undercutting CPAs. Then you moved on to be one of the lowest paid FO's in the industry for your aircarft type. Where the h$ll do you get off telling other people that taking a hit to have a job is unacceptable?

Furthermore, he paid for his job at GIA.

 

[duck_killer]

Furthermore, he paid for his job at GIA.

Wow. You couldn't make a bigger hyporcite

 

[JoeMerchant]

Gulfstream-Pinnacle-Air Tran.....Now it's time to hold the line.......:laugh:

 

[Magneto]

I agree PCL_128. SHUT YOUR MOUTH! You're done!

 

[Flip]

Gulfstream-Pinnacle-Air Tran.....Now it's time to hold the line.......:laugh:

Airtran? Are they still around?

 

[79%N1]

PCL_128???? Who is that? That loudmouth a$$ has been ignored for so long now. He even has topped GL for having to spout on every topic on every forum. I think you'll even find him on the ultralights and helicopter forums!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

And those pilots were wrong to do so. I would rather watch my company cease to exist than give them one red cent from my paycheck. I don't pay for fuel, but I will pay for the right seat and will happily swing gear and say,"sir,yes,sir".

G....U....L....F....S....T....R....E....A....M....?

 

[Goose Egg]

Your profile depicts you as a bro FO. You can make more money, and repay those loans quicker at many, many other jobs. You can't really call this a profession anymore, thanks to short-sighted sell-outs like yourself.

Wow. I don't know what to do other than laugh, and reply that I haven't really been in the industry long enough to "sell out" on anything. I got a pay raise a few months back. That was pretty cool. Another one coming pretty soon for my anniversary and then another one in January '09. Is that your definition of selling out?

As far as finding other jobs, that's definitely my intention. However, I do have some "dues to pay" first. Just trying to work my way up the ladder, just like everyone else. Is that your definition of being short-sighted?

Trying to keep this a job worth having is hardly a luxury. Those that cavalierly dismiss and cast aside the gains and sacrifices of those that came before them are the problem.

I agree with your premise, but disagree with your application. Sometimes, conditions in the economy are so hostile, that a "job worth having," is any job, and the fact that it is doing something that you like and are good at is icing on the cake. I've got to tell you that I fear we are approaching those times--the times when having a flying job, period, is a luxury. And you speak of "sacrifices" of people in the past. Tell me, what did they do to make those sacrifices that we might have jobs now? Take pay cuts? Our view of this situation is so unbelievably different. You are entrenched in your mindset of "us vs. management" and you "can't let them win." I look at it as "we are all in this same boat together, including rampers, FAs, managment, ticket agents, etc., so lets keep it floating!"

"...cavalierly dismiss and cast aside gains..."

Pardon my editorial laugh, but HAH HAH. Yeah, thanks a ton. If the state of the industry today is due to the actions of pilot groups in the past (as if they had that kind of influence and control), then I personally have no one to thank but you guys who have been in the industry. I just got here, I haven't had a chance to mess anything up yet. So I will sarcastically say "Nice going. You guys did a bang-up job."

This line of thinking begets scabs. Swap out "take a pay cut" with "cross a picket line"

Oh, you guys love to throw that "scab" term around. "So and so is a "scab" for doing this." "All SkyWest pilots are "scabs" for voting down ALPA." You are only a scab if you cross a picket line and fly struck work. That's all. Nothing more. To apply it to something else begets failed union drives because it suggests that all union hotheads are full of hatred and greed and otherwise devoid of reason.

Obviously Solidarity does not strike a chord with you.

It would if it actually meant something. From what I've observed so far, the term "solidarity" is a euphemism for the "what's mine is mine, and what's yours is also mine" mentality. No thanks. You can keep your union buzzwords. I prefer terminology that is truthful.

The sooner the better.

Yes, the sooner I get out of an industry where the old eat the young in the name of "solidarity," and where there is such an inflated sense of enititlement, the better. Not to mention all the other things that make this job challenging--the time away, the weekends and holidays, the relatively low pay (thanks again!), etc. I love my work as an airline pilot, but in so many ways, it's untenable for an entire career. But sometimes, you've just got to pay your dues. You have to work your way up. It can't all be handed to you at once.

So long as you get yours huh?

Yes, I suppose so. But let's define "mine." I would like a house with luxury features such as electricity and flush toilets. Beyond that, it's all just gravy. I've thought about trying to get the government to buy me one of those, but I don't think its going to happen. Maybe my sense of entitlement is insufficient.

Really, so many people out there have so little. I don't think we do a good enough job being thankful for what we have. In a troubled economy, I'm just glad to have a job, and a chance to continue to climb the ladder.

-Goose

P.S. If I didn't tell you before, you have one of the funniest avatars on flightinfo. I really get a kick out of it!

 

[Nevets]

....the needed Jerry more than they needed "luck"....

How do you figure?

 

[Nevets]

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/expressjet.html

Not hiring. Furloughing up to 550 pilots starting in September.

No numbers yet. It'll depend on the amount of early outs, flybe, colas, job sharing, and attrition (if any).

 

[Nevets]

I'm sorry you don't have management that knows how to make a profit and treat people well....that must suck....I understand why you are unhappy....

I'll give you that they know how to make profit (at their employees expense ) but they made it abundantly clear how they would have treated XJT pilots.