Entering a spin from a power-off stall???

[blesko]

I tell the student "how the hell do you get into a spin from a power off stall?"

Probably shouldn't be swearing at the student....lacks of professionalism and perhaps its an inexperienced instructor that's teaching improperly.

 

[WestHouston]

You did tell the student this, correct? If not...disregard my posts.

I don't remember the exact words I used. I don't know if I said that or something similar or nothing at all. I know I thought it. I never said i know all there is to know. Where does it say in the POH that the aircraft will inter a spin from a coordinated power off stall in a specified configuration? This is a ridiculous conversation.

 

[nosehair]

Where does it say in the POH that the aircraft will inter a spin from a coordinated power off stall in a specified configuration?

Let the beatings continue...:smash:

 

[flyguy75000]

Where does it say in the POH that the aircraft will inter a spin from a coordinated power off stall in a specified configuration? This is a ridiculous conversation.

I'm not trying to pick on you, I'm trying to help you from experience, my friend.

Your last statement makes it much more clear. You were taught poorly yourself and don't quite have the "correlation" level of stalls, perhaps much more, down cold.

In all honesty, it probably isn't all your fault. This is what happens when the airlines start hiring at 500 hours, they get guys who were instructing for 6 months that didn't have time to become stronger instructors. It is a spiraling trend and even the FAA has noticed it. I thought I sucked as an instructor when I first started. I was another student who had come up in the great hiring wave of the late 90's-early 00's. I can't even remember a bunch of my instructors names....I just kept getting passed off beacuse the guy I had for 5 lessons got a job at XYZ regional. The time came for me to be a CFI, put in my summer of instructing (which I thought it to be more as paid time building), and guess what? Some ragheads changed the world as we know it 1 month after I found a job. CFI jobs became very difficult to obtain in the area I lived, there was no turnover because there was no airline hiring. And it forced everyone to become a better instructor, because there was always that fear of losing your job to someone who was better and knew more. The teaching part comes with time. Believe me, I ended up teaching for almost 3 years before the hiring lines opened back up. The knowledge base is something you have to have. And once you get to the instructing level, its on you to know it.

Instead of continuing the beatings like the last guy said, I can only advise you to do what I did.

Get the Airplane Flying Handbook, the Jeppesen Private Pilot Manual, Aviation Weather, Private Oral Exam guide, PTS.....and go through them thoroughly. Make your self detailed notes and review them constantly. I'd give my students homework from these books all the time, then I'd do the ground lesson covering that material they were supposed to have read. This let me know where they were in the rote-understanding-application-correlation stages and allowed me to do my job in making sure they could correlate the material they needed to know. Another thing, some instructors like to teach the bare minimum to help the student pass the check ride. Try to go beyond this, teach your students all you can from the required materials and from your own personal experiences to help your students become better and smarter airman.

I'd suggest reading the aerodynamics section of the AIRPLANE FLYING HANDBOOK, then the entire thing as soon as you can. I'm not talking about the Cessna POH. This is a publication produced by the FAA and can be found at your local pilot shop, or online. And if you go on to get your CFII or Multi, I'd again advise you to spend the 20 bucks on the Instrument Flying Handbook and Multi Engine Handbook, and put in some time reading them and taking thorough notes. Better yet, you may want to get them even if you are not going to get those instructor certificates, you'll only increase your own knowledge and you'll be a better pilot. Smarter instructors produce smarter pilots.

Not to mention all the regional captains that will thank you for making their babysitting jobs just a little bit easier because their 400 hr F/O's will know just a little more than the last bunch that came through.

Good Luck.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Sage advice, flyguy75000.

 

[NW_Pilot]

In my 150M, Power Off Clean or Dirty if entered coordinated You can hold the Yoke back to the stop and keep it there and it will be a very mild stall always strait very little rudder add about 1/2 to 3/4 left or right rudder that will be your direction of turn in a nice spin.

Funny to watch people do stalls in my plane 50% drop a wing or almost spin it first time or 2 as they are uncoordinated on entry.

Very Sensitive Rudder for a Buck Fifty also.

 

[CFIcare]

Flyguy75000,

I was coming up through the student/instructor ranks at exactly the same time. I also ended up being an instructor for 3 years and 2000 hours of dual given thanks to 9-11. You are right that it forced us to be better because our competition was furloughed airline guys hungry for a job and ready to pillage our potential new student base.

That said, for the benefit of the original poster WestHouston, I would highly recommend getting William Kershner's Student Pilot's Flight Manual. He was THE original authority on the subject of spin recovery back before there was much written on the subject. He did a lot of the research on the subject himself with his own airplane. He became known for his expertise of the subject because there was a knowledge gap developing in students and instructors at the time due to CFIs being afraid of spins and even stalls, abd not understanding the fundamentals of how and why they occur, then passing that misinformation on to students who later became CFIs.

The fact that you say, how can you enter a spin from a power off stall? shows that you need a bit more understanding of coordinated flight, and the particular handling characteristics of your particular aircraft at the edge of a stall.

After reading Kershner's book, I'd find an aerobatic instructor with something like a Decathlon or Citabria (since they are representative of the kind of airplanes you instruct in) and explore the different configurations and situations. An Extra 300 or Pitts would not be comparable to a 152 for the purposes that you are trying to achieve, other than to prove that the method is the same.

 

[WestHouston]

Sorry that I'm not up to the standard of you post 9-11 instructors, and I mean that. I've done all I can to explain and demostrate spins to students. I was not aware that being surprised by a spin constitutes a lack of instructional knowledge. Even though when I asked several examiners about this situation and they said it was odd, I shoud've known better if I were truly a good instructor. This is one of the reasons I am ready to leave instructing. Let the people that know all there is to know be the teachers. I still think it's funny that this whole debate started over my comment "how do you get into a spin from a power off stall". I think it was merely a comment that normally, one should not expect to find themselves on the verge of a spin every time they do a power off stall. Obviously I am very ill-advised on the subject and the sooner I can leave this profession the better as I am obviously dilluting the talent pool with unqualified pilots. Thanks for your help.

 

[CFIcare]

Okay,

You asked a question about something that you ought to know more about than you apparently do, as a CFI instructing others. That's okay. No new CFI is an expert on everything upon passing the checkride. You learn the most on the job while instructing, and while talking with other instructors. You should find the weak points in your understanding of subjects and strengthen them for the benefit of yourself and your students.

None of us ever claimed or insinuated that we "know everything." You asked for help, we answered and pointed you toward good resources to help. You are a new instructor and you are asking people with years of experience. If you choose to disregard what everyone had said, you certainly have that option.

However as professional pilots, the attitude we should have is to continually be learning and adding to our knowledge. Likewise we share what we know with others so that they can learn. Now you can take the information and resources that we pointed out to you and educate yourself further on the topic, or you can decide that none of us has a clue and that you know all you need to.

Just realize that part of your lack of understanding of the subject seems to be caused by the fact that you disagree with the answers.

 

[flyguy75000]

Sorry that I'm not up to the standard of you post 9-11 instructors, and I mean that. I've done all I can to explain and demostrate spins to students. I was not aware that being surprised by a spin constitutes a lack of instructional knowledge. Even though when I asked several examiners about this situation and they said it was odd, I shoud've known better if I were truly a good instructor. This is one of the reasons I am ready to leave instructing. Let the people that know all there is to know be the teachers. I still think it's funny that this whole debate started over my comment "how do you get into a spin from a power off stall". I think it was merely a comment that normally, one should not expect to find themselves on the verge of a spin every time they do a power off stall. Obviously I am very ill-advised on the subject and the sooner I can leave this profession the better as I am obviously dilluting the talent pool with unqualified pilots. Thanks for your help.

CFICare has hit the nail on the head. You don't like the answers you were given. You have a bad attitude, like most of the "Mommy says I'm special" kids entering the adult-era of their lives these days.

You sound like a big vag1na with all that whining............