Endeavor Flow for New Hires

[General Lee]

No General...... That won't work and you know it. The competition will not allow it. You just want to keep stirring up emotions of regional airline employees who work so hard to make you money.
I once thought you might have some intelligence. I must admit I was wrong.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Competition? Have you heard of Consolidation? There is less competition because of it. Smaller communities won't see Spirit or SWA (they just dumped 17 former AT communities). I'm not trying to stir up emotions, just trying to give you my opinion on what may happen. I see fewer flights but primarily mainline planes. Hopefully you will apply and be a part of it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SoberIrishman]

No need. My nest of eggs is very nice right now, and growing in size rapidly. Very comfortable thanks. I will just keep on bringing you the peeps 76 at a time for now. Enjoy.

 

[General Lee]

No need. My nest of eggs is very nice right now, and growing in size rapidly. Very comfortable thanks. I will just keep on bringing you the peeps 76 at a time for now. Enjoy.

Well, let's hope you're right about continuing the feed. I don't think you're correct, and most see a pilot shortage when the big three have huge retirements in earnest. There haven't been that many retirements yet this year at DL, yet hiring included 100 each month in June and July, and 85 a month until next April, then falling to only 50 a month indefinitely. Each of the three legacies need about 5,000 pilots within the next 10 years. You may be the last one at your Regional. I hope you do have many nest eggs.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Gr82Aviate]

What regional is making record profit? Regional pilots are paid by there company.

Thought it was obvious... I was talking about the mainline management that has managed to squeeze pay and benefits so low through their RFP process that it's getting harder to find suckers willing to enter servitude at their regional feed. It's funny how they continue to preach the need for cuts/cost competitiveness for the crews while they reward themselves with ever increasing salaries, benefits, and bonuses.
Just look at the shenanigans Delta management has been pulling at Endeavor to see just how far they're willing to go to marginalize our "profession".

 

[jynxyjericho]

Thought it was obvious... I was talking about the mainline management that has managed to squeeze pay and benefits so low through their RFP process that it's getting harder to find suckers willing to enter servitude at their regional feed. It's funny how they continue to preach the need for cuts/cost competitiveness for the crews while they reward themselves with ever increasing salaries, benefits, and bonuses.
Just look at the shenanigans Delta management has been pulling at Endeavor to see just how far they're willing to go to marginalize our "profession".

It should be a lesson though, that while the Delta biz model at Endeavor has completely failed, they will make no meaningful effort to attract or retain their pilots. It makes no financial sense to prop up Endeavor even after bringing every function under Deltas blanket without violating dual carrier status.

Right or wrong delta has a number in mind they will pay for regional businesses before bringing it in house, that number doesn't support a viable biz model at a regional. There's no shortage when you just park the rjs and fly a 717 instead.

 

[redflyer65]

It should be a lesson though, that while the Delta biz model at Endeavor has completely failed, they will make no meaningful effort to attract or retain their pilots. It makes no financial sense to prop up Endeavor even after bringing every function under Deltas blanket without violating dual carrier status.

QUOTE]

Unfortunately, you may be right. Just look at Comair. Delta paid 2 Billion dollars for them and eventually closed them down with a gain of Zero dollars. Not quite the best financial decision. So losing billions of dollars to prove a point (low wages in this case) is not beyond them.

I'm sorry, but raising regional wages at Endeavor IS financially possible from Delta. You guys make so little now, a small percentage increase (especially for the FOs) would be a drop in the bucket to a huge, Fortune 500 company making several billion dollars in profit every year. But instead, they prefer slave wages and newhire classes show how popular that decision is..

 

[jynxyjericho]

It should be a lesson though, that while the Delta biz model at Endeavor has completely failed, they will make no meaningful effort to attract or retain their pilots. It makes no financial sense to prop up Endeavor even after bringing every function under Deltas blanket without violating dual carrier status.

QUOTE]

Unfortunately, you may be right. Just look at Comair. Delta paid 2 Billion dollars for them and eventually closed them down with a gain of Zero dollars. Not quite the best financial decision. So losing billions of dollars to prove a point (low wages in this case) is not beyond them.

I'm sorry, but raising regional wages at Endeavor IS financially possible from Delta. You guys make so little now, a small percentage increase (especially for the FOs) would be a drop in the bucket to a huge, Fortune 500 company making several billion dollars in profit every year. But instead, they prefer slave wages and newhire classes show how popular that decision is..

Supposedly once they get an economy of scale they will be able to pay more. Union had translated that to, "look we just need you to fly at least one airplane around by dec 2015 so we can break DCIs back and give you whatever is left over," so as long as they don't lose every pilot of what's left they feel they can toss a few bucks at them.

I, like many, already left so that's for others to benefit from. I think it's likely that by december 2015 it'll just be the DO and the CP flying one 900 around at management pay with a made up pay scale. FOs are still leaving faster than CAs and it's a net loss of 40 or 45 guys a month.

 

[XPOO]

It should be a lesson though, that while the Delta biz model at Endeavor has completely failed, they will make no meaningful effort to attract or retain their pilots. It makes no financial sense to prop up Endeavor even after bringing every function under Deltas blanket without violating dual carrier status.

Right or wrong delta has a number in mind they will pay for regional businesses before bringing it in house, that number doesn't support a viable biz model at a regional. There's no shortage when you just park the rjs and fly a 717 instead.

88 717s aren't going to pick up the slack of losing 200+ large RJs

 

[jynxyjericho]

88 717s aren't going to pick up the slack of losing 200+ large RJs

Those 717s are to replace the 50 seaters XPOO.

Can you explain a little more about what you mean? Are you trying to say that after all the 50 seater are gone (near all; couple dozen remaining) that the regionals wont be able to supply pilots for the large RJs.

 

[XPOO]

Those 717s are to replace the 50 seaters XPOO.

Can you explain a little more about what you mean? Are you trying to say that after all the 50 seater are gone (near all; couple dozen remaining) that the regionals wont be able to supply pilots for the large RJs.

You were talking about Endeavor. They will soon be a CRJ900 operator exclusively. Then you said there was no reason to continue to prop them up when they can just replace their RJs with 717s. I assume you meant 88 717s would be enough to backfill a potential of 100+ CRJ9s. Then taking into account the rest of the Delta Connection fleet of large RJs that total well over 200.

 

[jynxyjericho]

You were talking about Endeavor. They will soon be a CRJ900 operator exclusively. Then you said there was no reason to continue to prop them up when they can just replace their RJs with 717s. I assume you meant 88 717s would be enough to backfill a potential of 100+ CRJ9s. Then taking into account the rest of the Delta Connection fleet of large RJs that total well over 200.

Ah I think I see where the confusion might lie. I'm being very sarcastic in both posts but lacing some truth in there, and its very confusing. Im just being absurd about Endeavor being down to two pilots and one 900, I would love to see the remaining Endeavor pilots have that sort of leverage because everyone left but right now they aren't losing pilots quite that fast.

Yes, sometime next year its hard to imagine any 50seaters left on property, but with current attrition, theyll be able to fly 100-120 900s. Other regionals will continue flying their 900s and 700s for delta. Delta wants the 50seater lift shrunk (I think to about 50), the lift will be picked up by 717s. Now some routes will go away, Delta hasnt been shy about telling customers to drive 3 hours to another, bigger, airport because they are stopping service to their town. So between reduced service and bigger airplanes they'll cover it with 717s. I feel like they can always bring more 717s or 319s on. Delta will have months to fix problems, and this failure at Endeavor (as much as it sucks for those still there) isn't a big enough problem for Delta to fix it.

 

[maru657]

Thought it was obvious... I was talking about the mainline management that has managed to squeeze pay and benefits so low through their RFP process that it's getting harder to find suckers willing to enter servitude at their regional feed. It's funny how they continue to preach the need for cuts/cost competitiveness for the crews while they reward themselves with ever increasing salaries, benefits, and bonuses.
Just look at the shenanigans Delta management has been pulling at Endeavor to see just how far they're willing to go to marginalize our "profession".

I think this summarizes the issue neatly. Looking at the AC flown by this writer, I would say that is Excellant experience. As a chief pilot, I would say barring any major bodies in the closet this pilot should be hired. Unfortunately, His bio says civilian, so let's be honest. He will be low priority at best, for a position with Delta. Now Delta can say there standards are their own business but the next time we have airplane parts raining down because one of their college boys never learned to fly, the restrictions on lawsuits should be lifted. Furthermore, if DALPA pilots knowingly support a flawed hiring system, why should this person or anyone in a similier position support or respect any labor action by DALPA pilots?

 

[bafanguy]

Furthermore, if DALPA pilots knowingly support a flawed hiring system...

Does DALPA have any voice in who gets hired or under what circumstances/criteria ? Isn't than purely a management function...mainline or regional ?

 

[General Lee]

Does DALPA have any voice in who gets hired or under what circumstances/criteria ? Isn't than purely a management function...mainline or regional ?

Exactly. DL hires pilots via their HR team and they set the policies. Right now they seem hell bent on hiring pilots with 3.0 College GPAs or better. That is what THEY have decided. They also created the EtD program.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[bafanguy]

Exactly. DL hires pilots via their HR team and they set the policies.

If people want to assign blame for misdirected hiring policy, blame the correct people. Otherwise, the accusation has no validity.

I can go back 40+ years to find fault with what DL HR cubicle droids have done.

I'd best stop right here...

 

[CX880]

Exactly. DL hires pilots via their HR team and they set the policies. Right now they seem hell bent on hiring pilots with 3.0 College GPAs or better. That is what THEY have decided. They also created the EtD program.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Nobody cares. You're talking to yourself.

 

[Flyer1015]

It should be a lesson though, that while the Delta biz model at Endeavor has completely failed, they will make no meaningful effort to attract or retain their pilots. It makes no financial sense to prop up Endeavor even after bringing every function under Deltas blanket without violating dual carrier status.

QUOTE]

Unfortunately, you may be right. Just look at Comair. Delta paid 2 Billion dollars for them and eventually closed them down with a gain of Zero dollars. Not quite the best financial decision. So losing billions of dollars to prove a point (low wages in this case) is not beyond them.

I'm sorry, but raising regional wages at Endeavor IS financially possible from Delta. You guys make so little now, a small percentage increase (especially for the FOs) would be a drop in the bucket to a huge, Fortune 500 company making several billion dollars in profit every year. But instead, they prefer slave wages and newhire classes show how popular that decision is..

You have to hand it to Delta. Only Delta can get a pilot group to vote 85% yes, publish a fleet plan/end-state of 81 CR9s, and still get a portion of pilots to actually believe they'll keep as many CR2s as they can staff. Delta = pure genius. 40-45 pilots leaving per month? Perfect for Delta, as they bring Endeavor down to 81 planes which is approx 950 total pilots. In fact, if there are 1850 pilots on property today, Delta wants ~900 pilots gone by end of 2015. Raise pay? Why? Delta is getting exactly what it wants from Endeavor. Only pilots make the mistake of thinking things aren't going according to plan. For Delta, it literally can't get any better. They'll let the rate reset debacle happen at other DCI carriers, force them to do it lower costs than before, and end of 2015 shut down Endeavor. Latest end 2016. By 2017, the only Endeavor Air that will exist is Mel Gibson's in 'Ransom'

 

[johnsonrod]

Nobody cares. You're talking to yourself.

Dude - you don't speak for everyone. How about you STFU!

 

[CX880]

Johnsonrod is genny lee!!!

 

[jynxyjericho]

Johnsonrod is genny lee!!!

I've come to the conclusion they are all The General. Flightinfo is just me and 1000 genny alter egos yelling at each other. You're genny too.