Emirates training course

[Freight Dog]

These days, that's like 50% of regional guys. For many, it just ain't worth leaving no more!

Yeah, but at least US regional guys have a chance... For some European folks from what I gather, it's not even a possibility.

 

[the turtle]

This is funny because every 777 guy that has jumpseated on my flights say its the best and easiest flying plane by far that they've ever flown. They must really go out of their way to make a 777 training program difficult. I mean most people's biggest concern is the V1 cut and doesn't the 777 give you rudder automatically?

yep. but they've failed the TAC for every V1 cut

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I would be interested to hear his justification for the big difference in flying for a regional in Europe vs the US.

I didn't ask, somebody who makes that claim not to a blond in some bar but to other pilots is clearly stupid, as a rule of thumb I don't try to reason with stupid.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

yep. but they've failed the TAC for every V1 cut

No big deal, just plan on jamming your foot to the floor and work in the rudder trim. It flys 90% like a 767.

 

[rway36]

Do corporate guys stand a chance?

Seeing what there mins are does a corporate lear jet driver stand a chance of getting in and being successful? Just wondering what the jump is like from a sports car where you actually do some hand flying to a large platform like a 777.

Thanks

There Mins:
First Officers
Current ICAO ATPL
4,000 hours total flying time
2,000 hours flown in multi-crew, multi-engine jet aircraft -OR- 2,500 hours total flying time on commercial multi-engine multi-crew aircraft jet
Preference given to pilots with > 2,000 hours medium to heavy jets
English Proficiency (ICAO Level4)
Current within the last 12 months prior to the date of joining

 

[SonicPig]

This is funny because every 777 guy that has jumpseated on my flights say its the best and easiest flying plane by far that they've ever flown. They must really go out of their way to make a 777 training program difficult. I mean most people's biggest concern is the V1 cut and doesn't the 777 give you rudder automatically?

Some of these guys have a checklist for taking a dump. Remove 5 squares of TP; no more no less, wipe twice front to back, 3 inch wipes timed for 1.5 seconds. NO MORE, NO LESS. Make the proper callouts, stand, raise drawers, raise trousers, (not pants you American idiot), buckle belt , walk smartly to sink, wash hands, blow nose, check tie and uniform, (you have to wear it to sim training, I mean checking/grading), exit bathroom, walk to briefing room, swallow pride, bite tongue and prepare to eat s#@t.

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[Dieterly]

You guys are describing checking, sorry they call it "training" at Cathay. Also, Kenny hit the nail right on the head when comes to Aussies and their view on flying...

 

[Varmint]

Seeing what there mins are does a corporate lear jet driver stand a chance of getting in and being successful? Just wondering what the jump is like from a sports car where you actually do some hand flying to a large platform like a 777.

Thanks

There Mins:
First Officers
Current ICAO ATPL
4,000 hours total flying time
2,000 hours flown in multi-crew, multi-engine jet aircraft -OR- 2,500 hours total flying time on commercial multi-engine multi-crew aircraft jet
Preference given to pilots with > 2,000 hours medium to heavy jets
English Proficiency (ICAO Level4)
Current within the last 12 months prior to the date of joining

Unless you have some past Airline experience, EK will not even look at you. Some guys who were furloughed from airlines and went to fly corporate have gotten in but only because of their past Airline experience.

 

[777forever]

Some of these guys have a checklist for taking a dump. Remove 5 squares of TP; no more no less, wipe twice front to back, 3 inch wipes timed for 1.5 seconds. NO MORE, NO LESS. Make the proper callouts, stand, raise drawers, raise trousers, (not pants you American idiot), buckle belt , walk smartly to sink, wash hands, blow nose, check tie and uniform, (you have to wear it to sim training, I mean checking/grading), exit bathroom, walk to briefing room, swallow pride, bite tongue and prepare to eat s#@t.

That pretty much sums it up.

You have to be in full uniform for training?

 

[SonicPig]

You have to be in full uniform for training?

Don't have to wear the hat. That's pretty lenient on their part.

 

[waka]

I'll never understand this mentality over seas. ME, Asia etc. I mean flying was invented and perfected in America and most of these companies fly American airplanes. What gives?

How was flying perfected in America? Can you be more specific?

 

[Varmint]

Some of these guys have a checklist for taking a dump. Remove 5 squares of TP; no more no less, wipe twice front to back, 3 inch wipes timed for 1.5 seconds. NO MORE, NO LESS. Make the proper callouts, stand, raise drawers, raise trousers, (not pants you American idiot), buckle belt , walk smartly to sink, wash hands, blow nose, check tie and uniform, (you have to wear it to sim training, I mean checking/grading), exit bathroom, walk to briefing room, swallow pride, bite tongue and prepare to eat s#@t.

That pretty much sums it up.

LOL Yep...that says it all. Some funny shiiite.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Corky,

I absolutely despise Emirates' training course. It is probably one of the worst experiences you will go through. Some people will say that it has gotten loads better over the years, well, its not good enough. List of problems.

1. Course is self-taught. There is a mentality here that being taught by an instructor is being "spoon-fed". I do not buy into that mentality as a lot of students learn better when the ability to ask questions while a course is progressing is afforded rather than just throwing a student in front of a computer system and a large pile of books and telling them to learn it. This is absolute laziness on the part of the instructors and the training department, not the student....the students have their platters full already.

2. EK has developed this sporty grading system that they think is really awesome. Unfortunately, the system allows instructors to grade you down on you not using their "technique" rather than just pass/fail on the use of SOP's specifically listed in the book. These guys will go so far as to read between the lines in the SOP's to convince you that their technique is actually an SOP and if you argue with them you will either be graded down more or marched up to the training managers office for a meeting. While I think MM is a great guy and wants to change things more, his hands are tied by those above his head.

3. EVERY event in training begins with the proverbial dick measuring circle. Tell us about where you came from and what you have flown. God help you if you are an RJ guy. You will immediately have a preconceived stigmata branded on your forehead that says you don't know anything and can't fly. During training, a couple of my friends studied with their flight partners, learned the same material, and did things exactly the same way as him (not in the sim, in the fixed base procedures trainer). Their flight partners (UK Boeing guys) got higher marks than they did probably because of a favorable nationality to the trainer and the Boeing background. Could they have complained. Yes. Would it have made things worse for them....yes. So they kept their mouths shut during the training.

4. If you are from the US, nothing that you learned in the US is right. Our radio procedures are all non-standard (to them) and apparently aircraft fly differently in Australia and the UK than they do in the US because all these guys want to re-train you on the "proper" way to fly an airplane and talk on the radio. Despite the fact that the USA has one of the best safety records and the lowest accident rates in the world, us "yanks" do not have enough book smarts and "airmanship" (a VERY overused term here) to make the engines turn smoothly on an Emirates Aircraft.

With all that said, if you just suck up your pride, nod your head, roll with the punches, and say "oh, I see" a lot, you will get through the training in one piece and be happy out on the line. There are TONS of great guys here that are good to fly with. I am not one to say bad things about EK, but this is the one area that I would love to see them clean house in and change the way things are done. We all have the same goal in mind and that is to be happy and make some money while enjoying our work. AFTER training all those goals are met.

A lot of what you say is true to an extent, but I think you're being a bit harsh.

One must recognize that it is going to be imperfect when dealing with so many different nationalities and cultures in training.

American airlines do seem to engender a culture that expects spoon feeding and that is just not the way it is done elsewhere in the world. At Emirates pilots are expected to show up for a lesson prepared, having studied the material to be covered. CBT is a fact of life everywhere, including the USA. The days of the two week systems ground school taught in a classroom with real live instructors are gone.

At Emirates there is no systems oral. It's a an easy multiple choice test. Since one doesn't have to spend so much time memorizing switches, lights, and what they mean for an oral they are free to spend that time learning the flows, procedures, and callouts. That is what Emirates emphasizes in the early stages of training.

And time is in abundance. It is not a fast paced ground school. The first three weeks is just generic requirements. If a new joiner spends their time wisely they can get a head start on the training and be way ahead when the CBT and fixed base training starts. That takes self-discipline.

I know a lot of RJ guys who have come to Emirates and have done very well in training. Different RJ airlines have different training cultures though. Some had very tough standards, others are quite lax. Same holds true for U.S. majors. There are vast differences in the standards that pilots are held to.

At Emirates pilots are held to a very high standard. Anyone coming to Emirates will benefit from that over the long run. Emirates training will make you a better and more professional pilot.




Typhoonpilot


P.S. Gillegan wasn't as tough as people say. He always gave me 5s.

 

[Gear Disagree]

If this were Facebook, I'd "Like" that post TP. Well said.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Is hand flyng stricty prohibited?

 

[Varmint]

A lot of what you say is true to an extent, but I think you're being a bit harsh.

One must recognize that it is going to be imperfect when dealing with so many different nationalities and cultures in training.

American airlines do seem to engender a culture that expects spoon feeding and that is just not the way it is done elsewhere in the world. At Emirates pilots are expected to show up for a lesson prepared, having studied the material to be covered. CBT is a fact of life everywhere, including the USA. The days of the two week systems ground school taught in a classroom with real live instructors are gone.

At Emirates there is no systems oral. It's a an easy multiple choice test. Since one doesn't have to spend so much time memorizing switches, lights, and what they mean for an oral they are free to spend that time learning the flows, procedures, and callouts. That is what Emirates emphasizes in the early stages of training.

And time is in abundance. It is not a fast paced ground school. The first three weeks is just generic requirements. If a new joiner spends their time wisely they can get a head start on the training and be way ahead when the CBT and fixed base training starts. That takes self-discipline.

I know a lot of RJ guys who have come to Emirates and have done very well in training. Different RJ airlines have different training cultures though. Some had very tough standards, others are quite lax. Same holds true for U.S. majors. There are vast differences in the standards that pilots are held to.

At Emirates pilots are held to a very high standard. Anyone coming to Emirates will benefit from that over the long run. Emirates training will make you a better and more professional pilot.




Typhoonpilot


P.S. Gillegan wasn't as tough as people say. He always gave me 5s.

Typhoon,

Guys are agreeing with what I wrote....normal line guys. When you are in a group or department it is harder to see how the rank and file view that group or department as a whole because once guys find out that you are in training, they are afraid to say what they really think.

I was used to self study in the US from both from the CRJ and 737 PIC courses (CRJ was CBT but there was a facilitator receptive to questions you had while going through the slides). As I stated before, my batch studied in groups and did not expect to be spoon fed but still fell victim to the EK "technique" monsters who thought that they were gods gift to flying and would grade you down if you didn't do everything their way. When you have one guy grade you down and tell you to to use a different technique because the "way you read it in the book" was wrong so you go back the next day having mastered the new technique only to be graded down again because that technique was wrong and the first one was right, it gets very frustrating. This happened to me a lot and when you are new you don't want to rock the boat so you do what you are told and move on until you reach the breaking point. I reached it a couple of times during training because of these guys.

I agree with EK pilots being held to a high standard. I disagree with it making me a better pilot....maybe a better autopilot manager . These guys have been scared out of hand flying the airplane and always engage the autopilot within the first 1000ft. I heard rumors you were not at EK anymore, is that true?

 

[Flyer1015]

You can't handfly above 1000 feet is the company policy?

 

[uba757]

You can't handfly above 10000 feet is the company policy?

There, corrected it for you! Take care! lol

 

[iluvetops]

Varmint

TP is still with us.

 

[Varmint]

Varmint

TP is still with us.

Thanks E-tops. Good to know.


Regarding hand flying at EK. The old mentality was to engage the autopilot as early as possible and disengage it as late as possible. The old mentality is etched into the brains of some of the guys.

While the new guidance is more encouraging of hand flying below 10000ft, the guy in the other seat usually squirms like he has hemorrhoids until the autopilot is engaged.