Embraer 190 comparable pay

[Falconjet]

Nice looking hats on those guys though. True professionals.

FJ

 

[Mr Hat]

Now before they were on the verge of collapse they had pilots making 345/hour, the lowest paid 737-200 captain on property made over 170/hour. Those retiring were getting pensions anywhere from 100-180k/year for the rest of their lives and most had a B fund with about a million dollars in it. According to a few articles bemoaning the productivity at UAL the average pilot flew under 60 hours hard time and was paid over 80 hours. Now how in the world is that dragging the industry down.

I'm not here to flame the legacys but do you really think the Legacys will ever see that again? The damage first done by Sept 11th then by skyrocketing oil prices is in my opinion is unrecoverable. You aren't likely to see anyone making $345 an hour until inflation catches up to that amount and then it will be like making $190 an hour in this economy (and that senerio is even questionable considering how well pilot pay has kept the pace with inflation).

Point being that I feel it is unfair to blame Jetblue for low pay rates when they are making as much or more to fly the A320. The E190, sure I'd love to see those rates go up but who set that precident? Not Jetblue, it was USair's Mid-Atlantic. At least Jetblue was able to keep the 190's on their list and can fix it one day when the time is right. The other thing is nobody seems to complain about Airtran who's pay is compairable to Jetblue when you do the math. Jetblue is all about the math, if you just look at their pay at face value then yes it would be bad but if you do the math you find that it is comparable to any other airline.

 

[michael707767]

At least Jetblue was able to keep the 190's on their list and can fix it one day when the time is right. .

I've said that about us here at Delta. Better to keep the 190s on the list and fix the pay later. But people responded like I was a criminal or something.

 

[Mr Hat]

I've said that about us here at Delta. Better to keep the 190s on the list and fix the pay later. But people responded like I was a criminal or something.

You are 100% correct! Accept the low pay initially to keep them on property then fix it later. You know you can't fix it now but at least you could keep the flying. Because it says Embraer on the side it's not worthy of Delta or any other legacy for that matter? It's no different than those 737-200s you got (except for the better displays and an autopilot that knows where it's going). I certainly hope the legacy's learn from the CRJ/ERJ mistake of letting jets go to the "regionals". Fight like a mutha to keep those planes, let em look at you funny.

Currently Jetblue is light years ahead of the Legacy's for the simple fact that the Embraers are being flown at Jetblue by Jetblue pilots. There can be no disputing that, I don't care what the pay is.

 

[michael707767]

Because it says Embraer on the side it's not worthy of Delta or any other legacy for that matter?

You know thats an excellent point. We need to keep the E-190s if only to establish that being manufactured by Embraer or Bombardier does not mean its not a mainline jet or mainline job.

 

[Uppercrust]

You are 100% correct! Accept the low pay initially to keep them on property then fix it later. You know you can't fix it now but at least you could keep the flying. Because it says Embraer on the side it's not worthy of Delta or any other legacy for that matter? It's no different than those 737-200s you got (except for the better displays and an autopilot that knows where it's going). I certainly hope the legacy's learn from the CRJ/ERJ mistake of letting jets go to the "regionals". Fight like a mutha to keep those planes, let em look at you funny.

Currently Jetblue is light years ahead of the Legacy's for the simple fact that the Embraers are being flown at Jetblue by Jetblue pilots. There can be no disputing that, I don't care what the pay is.

That's the problem! Ding we have a winner!

 

[Green]

I'm not here to flame the legacys but do you really think the Legacys will ever see that again? The damage first done by Sept 11th then by skyrocketing oil prices is in my opinion is unrecoverable. You aren't likely to see anyone making $345 an hour until inflation catches up to that amount and then it will be like making $190 an hour in this economy (and that senerio is even questionable considering how well pilot pay has kept the pace with inflation).

Point being that I feel it is unfair to blame Jetblue for low pay rates when they are making as much or more to fly the A320. The E190, sure I'd love to see those rates go up but who set that precident? Not Jetblue, it was USair's Mid-Atlantic. At least Jetblue was able to keep the 190's on their list and can fix it one day when the time is right. The other thing is nobody seems to complain about Airtran who's pay is compairable to Jetblue when you do the math. Jetblue is all about the math, if you just look at their pay at face value then yes it would be bad but if you do the math you find that it is comparable to any other airline.

Who knows if ual's rates will ever be back to that level. The point of my post was to show how ridiculous it was of that JBLUE pilot to claim that UAL pilots are dragging down the industry. They have done more to improve the industry than virtually any other pilot group and now that they have to suck it up and take JBLUE pay BlueBayou claims they are dragging everyone down. I found that laughable.

 

[da90drivr]

Who knows if ual's rates will ever be back to that level. The point of my post was to show how ridiculous it was of that JBLUE pilot to claim that UAL pilots are dragging down the industry. They have done more to improve the industry than virtually any other pilot group and now that they have to suck it up and take JBLUE pay BlueBayou claims they are dragging everyone down. I found that laughable.

Perhaps you should look a little deeper into history. Before JetBlue, ALPA failed to protect "high paying" pilot jobs by allowing RJ's to be flown by commuter airlines.
Jetblue chose to fly the 190s on a common seniority list but were forced to compete with the low payscales of the regionals and bankrupt airlines when setting a rate to maintain profitability.

Those who believe the state of the industry is solely caused by JB's 190 rates needs to look a little beyond their nose..

 

[Green]

Perhaps you should look a little deeper into history. Before JetBlue, ALPA failed to protect "high paying" pilot jobs by allowing RJ's to be flown by commuter airlines.
Jetblue chose to fly the 190s on a common seniority list but were forced to compete with the low payscales of the regionals and bankrupt airlines when setting a rate to maintain profitability.

Those who believe the state of the industry is solely caused by JB's 190 rates needs to look a little beyond their nose..

I never said that the state of the industry has anything to do with JB's 190 rates.

What I DID imply was that Blue Bayou was way off base to state that UAL pilots have been a drag on the industry. I'm not affiliated with Ual in any way and don't feel the need to defend them, but I just found Blue Bayou's statement to be idiotic.

By the way if you are going to blame the downfall of the industry on outsourcing rj's then point your finger at DAL.

 

[Mr Hat]

That's the problem! Ding we have a winner!

Listen here Sheldon, Prehaps you should re-read my post and try to stay 3 steps ahead of the point. I currently work for the highest paid regional out there and we worked for it, so don't be pointing your little finger at me...I'd suggest re-stowing it back in your anus for safe keeping.

It's more important to get the 170/190's on legacy property than it is to fix the pay on those aircraft. Once they are being flown by another pilot group like say, GULFSTREAM, the Legacy guys no longer have control over it. It also stops massive furloughs at the majors. In this regard, Jetblue is light years ahead of any ALPA MEC.

Who knows if ual's rates will ever be back to that level. The point of my post was to show how ridiculous it was of that JBLUE pilot to claim that UAL pilots are dragging down the industry. They have done more to improve the industry than virtually any other pilot group and now that they have to suck it up and take JBLUE pay BlueBayou claims they are dragging everyone down. I found that laughable.

Whoever is being paid the least will always be accused of dragging the industry down. United did LOADS to benefit the profession in the 90's as did Delta then unfortunatly they had to give it all back and now it doesn't really matter. The way we do things in this industry is pattern barganing so BlueBayou has a point. I would say that United is setting the bar for airline management to shoot for. Uniteds fault? No, just the way it is. You gotta do what you gotta do to survive. Hopefully the pattern will start going the other way again in the next few years.

You know thats an excellent point. We need to keep the E-190s if only to establish that being manufactured by Embraer or Bombardier does not mean its not a mainline jet or mainline job.

Right. If you work for a Legacy, don't let up on those scope clauses no matter what.