Embraer 190 comparable pay

[Green]

Whoever is being paid the least will always be accused of dragging the industry down. United did LOADS to benefit the profession in the 90's as did Delta then unfortunatly they had to give it all back and now it doesn't really matter. The way we do things in this industry is pattern barganing so BlueBayou has a point. I would say that United is setting the bar for airline management to shoot for. Uniteds fault? No, just the way it is. You gotta do what you gotta do to survive. Hopefully the pattern will start going the other way again in the next few years.

Right. If you work for a Legacy, don't let up on those scope clauses no matter what.

Even with UAL's paycuts I don't think you can argue that JBlue is doing any better. Ual pilots have a hefty B plan and a defined contribution of 15%.

The whole reason UAL's pay is where it is at is due to management wanting their costs to be in line with the Jblue's of the industry. They aimed for a total labour cost equal to the LCC's. So they have not "lowered the bar" as Blue Bayou states. They have conceded wages to bring themselves down to the level of the LCC's.

 

[Mr Hat]

Come on man, Jetblue was around for a year before UAL took paycuts. A year. At the time United was paid more than SWA, so why isn't SWA dragging the industry down? (Probably because a 12 year SWA Captain makes more than most Heavy drivers out there) Airtran was around for longer too and their pay is just about the same as Jetblue. This whole thing about who's dragging the industry down is silly. You get what you negotiate and what the market will bear. Jetblue isn't the evil empire. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised if one day Jetblue is one of the heavy hitters out there one day. Pay rates flip all over the place, todays lowest maybe tommorrows highest.

 

[Uppercrust]

Listen here Sheldon, Prehaps you should re-read my post and try to stay 3 steps ahead of the point. I currently work for the highest paid regional out there and we worked for it, so don't be pointing your little finger at me...I'd suggest re-stowing it back in your anus for safe keeping.

It's more important to get the 170/190's on legacy property than it is to fix the pay on those aircraft. Once they are being flown by another pilot group like say, GULFSTREAM, the Legacy guys no longer have control over it. It also stops massive furloughs at the majors. In this regard, Jetblue is light years ahead of any ALPA MEC.

Whoever is being paid the least will always be accused of dragging the industry down. United did LOADS to benefit the profession in the 90's as did Delta then unfortunatly they had to give it all back and now it doesn't really matter. The way we do things in this industry is pattern barganing so BlueBayou has a point. I would say that United is setting the bar for airline management to shoot for. Uniteds fault? No, just the way it is. You gotta do what you gotta do to survive. Hopefully the pattern will start going the other way again in the next few years.

Right. If you work for a Legacy, don't let up on those scope clauses no matter what.

An attitude like that will get you no where. I didn't realize you worked for Jetblue?

 

[-9Capt]

Uppercrust,

You've been a lot more vocal lately now that you can't post as commuterpuke anymore.

Grow up kid.

 

[Uppercrust]

Uppercrust,

You've been a lot more vocal lately now that you can't post as commuterpuke anymore.

Grow up kid.

Never was able to!!!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Uppercrust: It's obvious that's not your photo in your avatar. If the real owner decides to investigate the matter you could wind up on the nasty end of a civil suit. FYI.

 

[Mr Hat]

An attitude like that will get you no where. I didn't realize you worked for Jetblue?

Thank you spanky. I'm Ron Burgandy?

 

[AA717driver]

If things hadn't gone to crap at the legacies, JB would have trouble getting qualified people. As it is, they and SWA, FEX, UPS and AT are making money so that's where people want to be.

The whole world has changed. ALPA started things downhill by not fighting for...well, anything. Sure, UAL and Delta had good contracts. FEX does now. Does that mean things are ok? ALPA kept casting off the smaller guys and pumping up the big boys until there were no big boys left (except FEX).

JB is not paid enough. AirTran is not paid enough. Until ALL airline pilots are united (really united not just wearing the same lapel pin) no one will have good pay, benefits and job security.

It will be a long, hard road to recover what we have lost, no, given away.TC

 

[filejw]

Just dropped my parents and a son off at BOS to fly Jet Blue and got my first look at a EM190.Nice airplane but boy's 100 seat A/C used to pay $160 an hr.We,collectively better get our S##t together or it won't be worth coming to work.My brother the sales guy $250,000.Sister a VP at a Fortune 50 corp $300,000.And I'm the brain in the family.

 

[Tref]

.....

 

[PHXFLYR]

I left Jetblue, mainly from this issue. After all the bitching, after all the pocket sessions, David, Dave, and little Dave (Bushy) said tough luck. In order for us to make money, we need to pay trash wages to our people. How 'bout them values boys?

And what really got me is that people like some of you guys bought it. Amazing! Lets work for half wages so Jetblue can make money. Why not work for free? We don't care about a retirement, we got those stock options! Worth alot now for the numbers 500 and higher, huh?

Some of you wonder why you get denied jumpseats and the like.... I know it isn't supposed to be a political tool, but it was a slap in the face to the industry. I know I caught slack as a commuter and normally just paid nonrev charges to my furloughed carrier to not have to deal with it...
..
Don't get me wrong, there are some great guys there. But there are quite a few morons that seem to be just happy to have a job and would gladly work for less...

Lemmme guess.....furloughed USAir?

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Just dropped my parents and a son off at BOS to fly Jet Blue and got my first look at a EM190.Nice airplane but boy's 100 seat A/C used to pay $160 an hr.We,collectively better get our S##t together or it won't be worth coming to work.My brother the sales guy $250,000.Sister a VP at a Fortune 50 corp $300,000.And I'm the brain in the family.

Well if you're such a "brain" why are you doing this for a living?


PHXFLYR

 

[Fins Up]

Just say NO to ALPA.

 

[A350]

All:

I don't get what the problem is.....those of you who don't like the payscale at JB sure are vocal about it. And you state that you can't believe that we would whore ourselves out for such an outfit.....

Yet, all airlines are cutting pay and benefits and in some cases to worse levels. Do you all keep coming to work and doing the job? I expect the answer is yes. Otherwise, all these ALPA guardians of the profession wouldn't keep undercutting each other for the flying, quick upgrade, and parachute out to better things.

Get off your high horse. If you don't like the pay and benefits, then quit and go somewhere else. I suspect you will never apply. That is JB's gain.

A350

 

[filejw]

PHXFLYR,
Cause at 58 I'm on the way out.It's up to you young guys to fix this business. I've already made mine.

 

[SUNDOWN]

PHXFLYR,
Cause at 58 I'm on the way out.It's up to you young guys to fix this business. I've already made mine.

And who's says ALPA eats it's young. Way to look out for your brothers. Look at the average age of the Legacy airline pilot and tell me what is wrong with that.

 

[SUNDOWN]

Uppercrust if that isn't you I would start worrying.

 

[PCL_128]

Uppercrust if that isn't you I would start worrying.

Nope, it's not him. I happen to know who the guy in the picture really is, and I'm sure he won't be happy when I call him and let him know that someone is using his picture without permission and spouting all kinds of crap. Seems like a great defamation of character lawsuit to me. Watch your back, Uppercrust.

 

[Uppercrust]

Nope, it's not him. I happen to know who the guy in the picture really is, and I'm sure he won't be happy when I call him and let him know that someone is using his picture without permission and spouting all kinds of crap. Seems like a great defamation of character lawsuit to me. Watch your back, Uppercrust.

You're right it's not good what has happened with the pictures of the GIA pilots in the last days. What began as fun with Ty Webb and the other Airtan guys fighting it out in the sandbox has gotten a little out of hand.

In terms of spouting crap, it seems to be the other people posting on this board who are spouting insults about PFT and the like. Some folks need to get a thicker skin.

I used the avatar a few days ago to see if I could get the Rhoid guy worked up. Well it worked. Shortly after I posted with that picture, he practically went nuts and started posting every other minute to include starting spam threads. It was almost like I was stealing his thunder. Funny at first but really not. By the way, I've gotten some PM's from some folks saying the guy is a pretty funny dude. Based on that smile I would agree.

 

[filejw]

You guy's completely misunderstand.What I'm saying is its up to you younger people to make things better.Up the pay standards so they compete with other professions.
And the meaning of I've got mine is I've completed my working life.

 

[Mr Hat]

Nope, it's not him. I happen to know who the guy in the picture really is, and I'm sure he won't be happy when I call him and let him know that someone is using his picture without permission and spouting all kinds of crap. Seems like a great defamation of character lawsuit to me. Watch your back, Uppercrust.

Yeah, Mr Bean has tried to sue me 3 times already. Luckily it's a little more difficult for him being that he is from England.

 

[jimcav]

filejw AirTran pay is 153 hr (max) for 100ish seats. That included the DC-30s (105 seats) up until 2 yrs ago. To lump us into the same category as JB 190 rates is kinda unfair to us. Not that our rates are great but 80 hr is not even in the same league as us. Also 10.5% B plan not too bad.

 

[MK82Man]

EMB 190 at new US Airways

Didn’t see any discussion of the EMB 190 rates at the new US AIRWAYS (all 190 flying to be done by mainline pilots). Here is what was spelled out in our Transition Agreement. This may go up once we get an approved single list and an approved single contract, but for now is the agreed-too standard. A 2% raise to the numbers in 2012 is pre-agreed. This is straight pay (IE the minimum you would make).

Once we get settled down as a combined carrier, my guess is all new hires world probably start in the 190. You’d start in the 190 (all new hires in company will be paid the same regardless of AC type, so FO pay is the same no matter what in year one). For simplicity, a new 190 FO would make about (41.22 * 78 * 12) $38,581 a year (again straight pay, no 401K, no per diem, no extra flying, etc). I think it was assumed that you would move out as soon as your training lock expires (two years) and then to other equipment FO pay (year three is 66.37). If you moved to other equipment at year three as an FO you’d make (66.37 * 78 * 12) $62,122 a year. If you could hold Captain on the 190 at year 3/4, you might elect to remain in the 190 and avoid a two year training lock (by moving to other equipment as an FO). A 4 year 190 Captain would make (83.96 * 78 *12) $78,586. Initially I think we will fill the 190 Captains with 3/4 year FOs (now on other equipment at AWA) who want to jump to the $78K number. FOs with 5 years of seniority at AWA are paid $80.25, so I don’t see them leaving, they would just wait for Captain upgrade away from the 190. I don’t see any of the US Airways FOs leaving for the 190 since they are all senior and I’m pretty sure it would be a pay downgrade for them. Our 5 year AWA Captain pay on other equipment rises to $127.17 on 1 January, so for reference you would make (127.17 * 78 *12) $119,031 by upgrading away from the EMB 190.

Captain US EMB 190
Years Seniority Rate
1 78.57
2 80.36
3 82.14
4 83.96
5 85.82
6 87.53
7 89.29
8 91.07
9 92.89
10 94.74
11 96.64
12 98.58

FO US EMB 190
Years Seniority Rate
1 41.22
2 43.72
3 46.22
4 48.72
5 51.13
6 52.16
7 53.20
8 54.26
9 55.34
10 57.58
11 58.73
12 61.11

 

[Palomino]

and the 190 has how many seats?

why isn't this ship commanding DC9/737 pay? oh...i know...it's got a small plane label on it. same thing with the Canadairs.

and we continue to fall for it. amazing.

 

[hawk996]

You guys love bashing B6. Tell me what a new hire at Continental Airlines has to look forward to. The 190 pay is low, but not as low as the new hire 767/757 pay at Continental. No medical for six months either.

We are talking about a major airline and they can't supply medical isurance. What is wrong with this picture?

I do know that B6 is waiting to get the numbers in from the 190 and may adjust the pay if the figures can prove it is making money. At ACA we had a very low pay rate for the D328Jet, and later was brought inline with the rest of our equipment.

Argue all you want boys and girls, but other airlines have lowered the bar alittle more then B6 did, just find a new hire Continental Pilot.

 

[A350]

I can tell you why the 190 is paying so low at USAir.....they had to do it in order to get the flying. Otherwise, it goes to Mesa, Republic, or AWAC.

If they ask for DC-9/F100/737 or even BAE146 rates, the flying and therefore the jobs go elsewhere.

Its called a whipsaw....and it is nothing new. But it is highly effective and will continue until we unify.

I'll be in the retirement community by then.......you can PM me when it happens.

A350