EMB 170 today at CHQ

[blott]

Yo BLUE--Who Dat...PM me, or post a hint? (woudn't be x-training guy would it? MM)

B

 

[lazy8s]

The 170's are coming, around 6 next year, 8 the year after, 25-50 for a grand total. J4J with UAL.

I have read and re-read the TA, there is NO MENTION of J4J with UAL.

It specifically states US Airways J4J. There is no side letter for UAL.

Care to clairfy???

Lazy8s

 

[lazy8s]

BTW.....

HappyPilotGirl....

not so happy?

It sucks that SA is going through all of this right now. I'd hate to be there. However, lets not forget that CHQ came over an bailed you folks out quite a few times with everything from helping management recover from "crainial-anal inversion" to wet leasing the last of our Saabs to help the SA #s look better. Also quite a few maintenance bailouts to prevent USAir from canning you guys/gals.

I'm not trying to gloat, I'd just like to remind you that you shouldn't bash those that have helped in the past and those that are trying to help in the future.

I haven't personally been trying to get SA over to CHQ but I know that there are those @ CHQ that are working toward that. I hope for your sake that your attitude doesn't shine trhough at an interview........

Just something to think about.....

Lazy8s

 

[Corbon]

Nosohappypilotgirls sig line:

I still blow minds for a living.

I doubt "minds" are the body parts you blow for a living.

 

[BTDII]

I didnt have PSA in my thread earlier, so i found their 50 seat rates (on an earlier thread), and just for fun ill do a camparison with CHQ "mesalike" contract.

FO
CHQ PSA
1. 21.00 20.60
2. 28.25 25.75
3. 32.50 27.81
3. 33.50 32.31

Capt.
CHQ PSA
1. 51.00 49.44
2. 54.00 53.56
3. 57.67 54.53
4. 59.74 58.55
5. 61.29 60.32
6. 63.19 62.09
7. 65.14 63.61

Um? KingAirer,

I would'nt be comparing your rates to ours if I were you. You look silly since our rates are concessionary, ratified by the MEC, not the pilot group, prior to PSA going into bankruptcy. You guys are about to vote on yours and be happy with it!? For pennies above our concessionary rates? That seems odd, doesn't it?

 

[skeezer]

King Airer,

As a current PSA pilot I have to agree with you. NOBODY from PSA should be making fun of the payscales for any company other than MESA. Concessionary or not they are still a disgrace, especially the FO rates.

Peace!

Skeezer

 

[BlueCanoe]

Lazy-8's that non-U J4J was at the roadshow.

 

[MECH]

We are all guilty of bringing the standard of this profession down. NWA pilots are currently fly the DC-9-10 for alot more then we will go fly a EMB-170. So were do you think the major airlines are going to send the growth.

It was also mentioned that in the future we will bring the rates up. Why are we giving back contract gains that all the pilots before us work so hard to get. Also there is a very good chance that the pilots that follow us will be willing to work for less then us. The cycle would then continue.

We are the only ones that can stop it. I am not saying that the CHQ TA is a bad deal. To protect your flying is hugh, without giving in every where else even bigger.

Just don't sound so happy to be flying a major airline type equipment for half price(NWA DC-9 CAPT.). I think everyone of us got in this business to fly for NWA, CAL, AMR, DAL. For every airframe that traditionally flies for major but is now flown by a regional carrier is 12 to 14 less major positions. I hope we all are maxing out are 401K. Becuase none of us are going to see a major at this rate.

 

[TWAER]

I for one want to look at this from a different point of view. As a CHQ pilot, i wish that any plane that holds more that 50 pax is flown by a major airline. PERIOD!! Us getting 170's or 190's is great for CHQ but bad for me ever getting to the majors. I might as well be stuck at the regional level for my entire career. That being said, this is not the fault of CHQ. In my view, this is the problem of the lower cost major airlines such as WN, AirTran, Jet Blue and so on. The regionals are the "low cost airlines" for the majors. Let's take the city of Louisville for instance. UAL always flew a 737 in about 3 to 4 times a day almost always full. Well, here comes WN(Southwest) to directly compete with UAL to Chicago even though different airports. UAL starts losing money because they have to sink to WN's low fairs. Guess what? UAL pulls out and puts Aiw Wiskey in it's place to compete. Where was everyone then talking about THOSE mainline jobs being taken away??? This not only happened to SDF, but to dozens of former UAL cities, and is happening at every major airline out there.

UAL, AA, Delta and so on cannot compete with the new low fair airlines directly. The Only way they can do it is with regional feed. I think every pilot at CHQ would be happy flying 50 seaters. What you do have to remember though is that WE as a pilot group do not make the decisions on future aircaft acquisitions. If WEXford want to dump money in the 170, that is THEIR choice.

The carrot of the 170 is not there for me. I could care less. I personally think it is a mistake investing anything in UAL right now. The decision I have made on the TA is based on Republic going away, a raise , better benefits, and overall a better contract. The 170 is non influential unless they fly em out of STL.

About all those bashing the contract, What is your real motive?? Had a Comair guy tell me to vote no so we go on strike and lose our Delta flying. Is that what this is all about? Because unless you have:

1. Read the contract at least twice
2. been to the road show

You have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[surplus1]

NO maybe.... IT IS A FACT...

WE WILL FLY EMB170'S FOR UAL

I admire your enthusiasm, but I have a question:

Who will you fly the EMB170's for, if (when) UAL goes out of business?

I hope you don't put all your eggs in a basket that has already been dropped. But then you have another basket don't you, ___ being carried by USAirways. Hmmmm.

You guys had better keep Delta happy. It looks like they have the only basket that isn't full of holes.

Nice TA by the way, you've made a lot of improvements on what you already had.

Your book rates for the larger equipment are less than good and I would not crow about them (they are considerably below where they should be -- compared to current operators), but everything else is better than it was.

I wish you good luck.

PS. Nice pics. Your management has obviously grasped the concept that "the only difference between a man and a boy is the size of his toys."

 

[BlueCanoe]

You make a couple of assumptions:

1) I REALLY REALLY want to be an airline pilot. Well, that one is wrong. I want to fly airplanes professionally. I could careless if it's at an airline, corporate or even back to CFIing. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the life of showing up 45 minutes prior, all the planning done, etc. If someone REALLY REALLY wants to fly for a major, great for them. Don't screw me in the process of "Keepin' it real".

2) NWA does fly the DC-9-10 for a lot more than we do. I'm not to old, but if I keep flying larger and larger equipment, MY quality of life and pay increase. Eventually, the evolution will continue. There are others now flying 19-30 seat turboprops for less than we can. If UAL goes under, then our CEO will find a codeshare. (Also, it seems, that you forget how much lift UAL provides. Someone will have to provide it. Maybe some planes will leave the desert, maybe not who knows)

Don't get me wrong, we all have hopes and dreams. A friend of mine always wanted to be a UAL 757-767 driver, and he achieved it. Now, due to the misfortunes of the industry, he is back here as an FO. Such is life. Maybe, just maybe I'm happy where I am. I will be at CHQ for awhile, and you know what? As the position of my company increases in the industry, my job security (if there is such a thing) also increases.

Everyone needs to get the Regulated Industry standards out of their craniums. The bench marks are SWA, ATA, AirTran and JetBlue. They are proven profit machines, while the archane structures of labor and MGT at the "Majors" are loosers. Until a major restructuring of the industry occurs, it will continue to be a viscious cycle of severe loss and profits. People like you contribute to it. ALPA contributes. Airline MGT contributes. Anyone who does not recognize how to compete in a free-market are doomed. The detroit auto industry went through death spasms that finally proved a wake-up call. Now the industry is competitive on the world market again. Until that happens in this industry, the traditional carriers will not succeed. Remember MetroJet, Shuttle by United, Continental Lite? They were all half hearted attempts to restructure, and failed.

Don't blame us for give backs. We're not giving anything back to the company. Our TA and our company. If your insinuation was true, then the cost of quashing an alter-ego would have been a concessionary contract. We can't help that the majors have priced them selves out of the seat range. Point the finger at Spirit or SunJet for flying cheap, not us.

 

[Airpiraterob]

Q: Whats a teacher gonna make after 20 years teaching? and how much work do they put in?
A: not much more than what they started with, and more effort than you put in at your job. They dont sit around giving out tests and grading papers while letting the classroom flight attendant teach the subject and take care of the kids. they do it all...Consider yourself unbelieveably fukking lucky to have even this!!! get some perspective would ya? so i just might have to present this stuff as i would have to teaching a classroom.

wake up kids. you cant grab whats near you and shout 'mine!' cause it isnt. THIS IS NOT YOUR MARKET. its theirs. they could pay a million dollars a day to each pilot at chq, and yall would be here talking smack about the QOL issues...(ie: your milk is warm)
...yes...it would be like that...dont even deny it! there would always be something to piss you off regardless of the money you make! seems to me thats all this is about...money....and your greedy little fingers.

is nothing good enough for yall? does it not matter that again..THIS IS THE BEST TA YET SINCE 9/11! thers always something that yall arent gonna be happy with...well...so what. suck it up panzies. be a man and go to work and earn a living. even if its a small one...its better than NOTHING! and its what you love to do! just like a teacher! they start out with more than an FO would but they dont have a chance to make 100k a year at the end now do they? we're trying to get ourselves above the consessionary agreements out there and are succeeding for the most part. mabye not entirely but we are....it takes work a little bit at a time.....

so fo rthe kids that arent following me:
How do you climb a mountain? with hard work and lots of small steps. SET UP BASE CAMP AND ACLIMITIZE..then go a bit further. all the pilot groups from all the airlines do not make up the sole person climbing this hill...its one group..the CHQ group with everyone else out there playing king of the hill. were not on top. and theres only one thats going to be at any one time. so what.....were at a base camp...preparing another assault to get closer to the summit. were still dreaming big to get there..and we will sometime...but we know we cant run to the top immediately. we started from quite a ways away.

no this is not the attitude that puts the industry down....its the methodical way that gets you to your goal. slower but on more of a firm footing.

theres all kinds of low paying jobs out there...youd be suprised how **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** hard it is to get a job nowdays that even pays close to 25k the first year.
Q: whats a bunch of pilots in a room called?
A: a Whine cellar!

 

[bogberto]

KingAirer: MAG didn't give up any pay in our new anchor, I mean contract. We've always been the bottom of the payscale.

No matter how much we get paid, we'll always want more. We're normal human beings. But until we get the passengers to complain for us, nothing will happen. What if we want (for a 50-seater) $150/hr Captain and $100/hr FO. Sounds great, no? That will cost the paying passengers $5.00 per hour (per seat). Right now at Orstein Airways, a 4th-year crew costs $1.70/hr per seat. CHQ TA 3rd year will cost $1.83/hr/seat.

I think the pax are willing to pay.

Granted, to pay us all 150/100 would actually cost more than $5/hr/pax due to benefits and reserve crews, but it's still extremely possible.

 

[Medeco]

payrates

Hey Guys,

For what its worth ASA CRJ200 Fo's Make

1YR 19.02
2YR 33.65

8Yr 38.63

This was done in 1999 I think and we are 1 yr past contract exp.


CHQ pilots you need to raise the bar .

Vote NO

 

[DoinTime]

Could someone please post the 70 and 90 seat rates at the majors so I can compare?

NWA DC-9-10 (78-seat RJ) payrates effective this month.

NWA Capt:
1 - 175.45
2 - 176.87
3 - 178.30
4 - 179.75
5 - 181.18
12 - 191.20

CHQ Capt (for same aircraft):
1 - 53.55
2 - 56.70
3 - 60.55
4 - 62.44
5 - 64.35
12 - 80.01


NWA FO:
1 - 39.76
2 - 88.44
3 - 106.98
4 - 109.64
5 - 112.33
12 - 130.01

CHQ FO:
1 - 21.00
2 - 28.25
3 - 32.50
4 - 33.50
5 - N/A
12 - N/A

I don't think I need to mention the other contract benefits that NWA pilots enjoy over the CHQ guys.

 

[dispatchguy]

The bench marks are SWA, ATA, AirTran and JetBlue. They are proven profit machines, while the archane structures of labor and MGT at the "Majors" are loosers. Until a major restructuring of the industry occurs, it will continue to be a viscious cycle of severe loss and profits.

Truer words were never spoken. 9/11 brought on a paradigm shift in the industry, the majors will still be there for their international flying, and their long-haul domestic stuff, but people arent about to pay 20 bucks a minute to ride a B737 INDORD, like the old full Y fares of a few years ago. For that kinda $ in airfare, I should get something more than a bag o peanuts.

 

[TWAER]

Like I said before:

1. If you have not been to the road show
2. Have not read the TA at least twice

You are full of it coming on hear telling me how to vote. Until you do # 1 and 2, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[bogberto]

Re: payrates

Hey Guys,

For what its worth ASA CRJ200 Fo's Make

1YR 19.02
2YR 33.65

8Yr 38.63

This was done in 1999 I think and we are 1 yr past contract exp.


CHQ pilots you need to raise the bar .

Vote NO

Anyone know what profit margin Comair and ASA make?

Anyone know what profit margin TransStates and Chautauqua make?

 

[Cardinal]

NWA DC-9-10 (78-seat RJ) payrates effective this month:

Wow, what a comparison. Almost 3 times the compensation in many of those years. And it should be noted, even after September 11th NW continues to fly those elderly (1969-1970 build dates) -10s, and apparently can at least break even with the machines. Firstly, that's good for Northwest, and second, that means that such costs can indeed be borne by a network carrier.

 

[MECH]

Southwest is not the problem. Next year they will be the highest paid B-737 in the industry. The problem is us at the regionals. You saw it above CHQ, MSA, CMR, ASA, and others are willing to fly a 70 to 90 seat jet for half price.

It is no different then Walmart going into a town and charging half as much as the local businesses.

The line in the sand has to be drawn. We will be senior pilots at these companies getting bigger and bigger airplanes with no increase in pay.

It is our need to fly a bigger and faster airplane we forgot about our future. Unforunately it looks like for most of us it will be about 120 bucks an hour max with no pensions. We have no one to blame but ourselves.