EMB 170 today at CHQ

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

MESA AIRLINES: Mgt. threatens pilots with FREEDOM AIRLINES. Pilots show no back bone and get scared. Pilots sign crappy contract. Mgt. laughs at how easy that was. Mgt. wins.




CHQ. AIRLINES: Mgt. threatens pilots with REPUBLIC AIRLINES. Pilots show no back bone and get scared. Pilots sign crappy contract. Mgt. laughs at how easy that was. Mgt. wins.




Come on guys. You wil NEVER admit it, but if the above is true about MESA, you cannot honestly deny it is true about CHQ. What a bunch of wennies.

 

[Corbon]

Come on guys. You wil NEVER admit it, but if the above is true about MESA, you cannot honestly deny it is true about CHQ. What a bunch of wennies.

I assume you're ASA. I think you have enough to worry about, given your crappy performance for Delta, besides what WE do with OUR contract. Sorry you're not happy but honestly, we don't care. Now I'm going to vote yes, not because I like it, but because it will piss you off.
By the way, could you guys start parking at the satellite terminal in DFW? It can get kind of crowded at the main terminal with all those ERJs there. Thaaaaank ya.

 

[PilotRon]

..

 

[CHQ Cpt]

PilotRon, Corbon and other CHQ pilots.

Others may not approve of our TA, where we work, or who we codeshare with. However, we have had one very lucky streak at CHQ for the last 5 years. Please do not ruin the reputation that those of us that have been around for awhile built.

Remember, discretion is the better part of valor. One day our luck will stumble, and we don't want to be reminded of that.

We'll see ya online.

 

[C210drvr]

LearLove - Even industry leaders such as Don Carty and others can only speculate about the industry right now and make assumptions based on trends,

I didn't know that Don Carty was still an industry leader... He doesn't even work in this industry anymore.

 

[Capt. Caucasian]

Why do you think CHQ is making money?
I came to CHQ because of the great attitude by the employees. If you check the bulletin boards you will see that CHQ pilots complain less than anyone else. Why, because they are at a profitable company.

Well, at my company, ExpressJet (or CALEX, COEX, XJT, Express, Continental Express or what ever name they have for us now), we are making money hand over fist. However, morale is EXTREMELY LOW! I know because I have been briefed by the Wilson Polling Center, the company that does all polling for ALPA and the Teamsters as well as most other Unions.

Also, our captain rates are only about 7% lower than your new TA. Those are rates that were negotiated in 1997.
Unfortunately, the CHQ TA does affect us. It affects us all. As Big Daddy Dwayne said at the ALPA BOD, "WE ARE NOT COMPETITORS!". Companies compete, NOT Pilots.

Frats,
One of the Seven Dwarfs

 

[bogberto]

Hey KingAirer, since you're the numbers connection, how about you do a little digging and post what all of the regionals reported for a profit margin for the prior 5 years.

It's so easy to work for a company that posts a 25% profit margin year after year and call MAG and CHQ losers for accepting (or thinking of accepting) their TAs. When your company pulls a 25% profit margin, your company had better pay you $200/hr to fly a Beech 1900.

When your company clears 3-4% each year, it's pretty hard to ask for the Holier-Than-Thou rates. Those rates would send MAG, TSA, and CHQ (amongst others) to bankruptcy court in less than a heartbeat. Sure we could ask for it, maybe even get it. But after the first 3 months of payroll cleared, we'd be closing our doors.

Perhaps that's what you really want anyway?

 

[MetroSheriff]

Hey Lear (and others),

Anybody else notice that PilotRon went and deleted all his posts from the whole thread???

Well done Lear.

 

[brew3departure]

Just a few quick thoughts

Whatever you think of the CHQ TA, love it, hate it, let me just say this. I think anyone on here, openly wishing for the demise of this airline or that airline is, like LearLove pointed out, just plain frickin' nuts.

Even if we do stand to grow at CHQ, which is still very up in the air, it absolutely repulses me to think that someone would have the gall to brag about it openly -- at least in the form that I've seen on here. We are _thankful_ for the flying that we do, and no, we don't make the decision on what routes to fly. Everyone who flies for Airways knows that at least on the Express side, city pairs come and go, almost on a weekly basis. I still haven't figured out exactly why that happens, but that's another story.

Bragging about completion factors, on time performance, my airline is better than your airline -- for christ's sake - everyone saying this sort of thing should stop and think - it really sounds juvenile.

All that said, I will say one thing regarding CHQ & Mesa - Mesa already had Freedom to contend with, and, as a result, signed a _concessionary_ contract. Note that I didn't say a bad contract, or a crappy contract, but a _concessionary_ one. Yes, the Mesa folks got scope, they got a *hitload of growth thanks in part to J4J, and they got their now infamous 8 days off. I'm NOT looking to flame the Mesa guys -- merely using it as a frame of refernce for what we've got going right now.

CHQ has/had the chance to quash Republic _before_ the routes were being flown, _before_ the transferring of flying started. And, if this agreement passes, that will happen. What's the alternative? If this agreement doesn't pass, Republic starts up anyway, and slowly, or quickly, depending - growth goes that way, and when it's time to submit bids for more U flying or AA flying or whomever, guess what - not only can Republic do it for less than CHQ, they can do it for less than Mesa or Lakes or CoEx or ANYONE out there. And mark the day down if that happens, because this message board will be LOADED with people cursing Republic left and right. Probably the non-CHQ people who were so quick to tell CHQ pilots to go shove it and vote down the contract.

So, in closing - for those of you who think that the race to the bottom continues, well, you're right in a way. Signing this agreement, though, could very well prevent a further drop and perhaps get things turned in the right direction. Feel free to agree or disagree - but please, keep the ridiculous "Bye bye air whiskey" stuff to yourself. I can only imagine how ticked off I would be to read that as a pilot of Air Wisc. or any other one.

Having just re-read what I wrote, it looks like this is a soapbox for voting in the contract - and that really wasn't my intention.

LearLove, I'll look for ya in DC one of these days!

Take care,
-brew3

 

[George Jetson]

Re: Just a few quick thoughts

All that said, I will say one thing regarding CHQ & Mesa - Mesa already had Freedom to contend with, and, as a result, signed a _concessionary_ contract. Note that I didn't say a bad contract, or a crappy contract, but a _concessionary_ one. Yes, the Mesa folks got scope, they got a *hitload of growth thanks in part to J4J, and they got their now infamous 8 days off. I'm NOT looking to flame the Mesa guys -- merely using it as a frame of refernce for what we've got going right now.

As a caveat, I do not work for Mesa. However.....Mesa's new contract is NOT concessionary for them. They, like CHQ, made improvements on their old CBA. While not earth shattering in any respect, they did make improvements in most areas, thus making it not concessionary.

GJ

 

[Wacopilot]

CHQ Folks, you need to chill and take a deep breath. You all sound like 250 hr 21 yr old kids......If you want to raise the bar, start acting like a professional pilot, not a child. If you have been in the industry for a short while, stop and listen...you might learn something. If I were a mainline pilot reading this post I would think " listen to the kids fight." The only reason CMR pilots are giving CHQ pilots a hard time is because the CMR pilots believe that ANYTHING less than their current contract lowers the bar. There is nothing wrong with that attitude......the CHQ pilots cannot embrace the feeling of fighting for a great improvement like the CMR pilots can. It took 89 days to realize that feeling. If you demand what you deserve, then you too will understand why you are getting so much flack about your current TA. Even though it is an improvement on what you currently have, it is far short of what you deserve. You deserve better. You ARE the vehicle with which the regional airline industry can use to make improvements. That is all. Good luck.

 

[BlueCanoe]

What an interesting thread...Someone points out that an EMB-170 visits our IND HQ, and you all free-for-all on the CHQ TA giving us advice and bashing airlines. There is plenty of profitable flying out there. We all have good and bad luck. It is a competitive environment, and all of us, naturally, given a choice would not want to be the ones that "sacrifice" for the good of the group.

On a side note, my friends that are fire-fighters (a real everyday life-or-death job) have to work an additonal job. Think about how that if your house ever caught on fire. What do they DESERVE to get paid.

DESERVE and ENTITILEMENT are highly socialistic concepts, definately not suitable for a freemarket environment, Comrade!!

I sure don't want any company to go under, because it could just as well be my own. For one, I won't cut off my nose to spite my face.

However, that 170 is a sweet looking ride...

 

[exphojump]

Consider,

2002 salary and wages for ACAI made up 29% of total cost. Management claimed pilot wages made up 49% of salary and wages.

So, for ACAI pilot wages(one of the top three lucrative contracts in the regional industry) made up about 14% of total cost.

Chautauqua is not a public company so what percentage of total cost cannot be easily estimated.

In order for Chautauqua to finance new aircraft they need to either put down 25% of the aircraft value or make an 8 - 12% profit to secure reasonable financing.

Since Republic airways is not floating 100 million in convertable bonds like mesa, let's assume they need to make an 8 - 12% profit to finance new aircraft.

Comair/ASA's profit margin goes directly to DAL. Chautauqua must operate cost plus 8 - 12% to secure financing for new aircraft.

Purchasing the less expensive EMBs and reducing costs across the board is the only way to provide an equivalent cost product for DAL.

Naturally, Chautauqua pilots cannot be paid the same and provide the same cost product as DAL wholly owned companies whose profit margin goes directly to mother Delta.

That being said, I think they made respectable improvements in their contract with the exception of FO pay and J4J.

Thankfully, I work at ACAI where most of my FRJ FOs make CRJ FO pay because of the protections negotiated for FOs in our 2001 contract.

Things change quickly, you never know when you might get bumped to FO in a "growth airline".

Good Luck Chautauqua pilots, .

 

[nimtz]

CHQ Folks, you need to chill and take a deep breath. You all sound like 250 hr 21 yr old kids......If you want to raise the bar, start acting like a professional pilot, not a child. If you have been in the industry for a short while, stop and listen...you might learn something. If I were a mainline pilot reading this post I would think " listen to the kids fight." The only reason CMR pilots are giving CHQ pilots a hard time is because the CMR pilots believe that ANYTHING less than their current contract lowers the bar. There is nothing wrong with that attitude......the CHQ pilots cannot embrace the feeling of fighting for a great improvement like the CMR pilots can. It took 89 days to realize that feeling. If you demand what you deserve, then you too will understand why you are getting so much flack about your current TA. Even though it is an improvement on what you currently have, it is far short of what you deserve. You deserve better. You ARE the vehicle with which the regional airline industry can use to make improvements. That is all. Good luck.

Excellent post. Couldn't of said it in any better words. We are simply saying to you CHQ guys, especially those who are saying 70 seats SWEET, that you deserve a h*ll of alot more. That's probably the best form of insult I would hope to get in life. Simple formula fellow bottom feeders, mainline flying= mainline pay, not mainline flying= %30 of mainline/SW pay. The choice is yours and screw you if you set this profession back any further! Please notice I ain't tearing into any other part of this TA but the 70 seaters, because you guys are jumping like fools to the carrot of growth. Why else would managment put photos on the website? Good pilot, come and get the stick!

 

[surplus1]

Re: Just a few quick thoughts

Whatever you think of the CHQ TA, love it, hate it, let me just say this. I think anyone on here, openly wishing for the demise of this airline or that airline is, like LearLove pointed out, just plain frickin' nuts.

Very nice post. You make a lot of sense. I am hopeful that most of your group thinks like you do. For those that don't, consider the following.

Obviously the CHQ pilots will decide for themselves whether they wish to accept the TA or not. That is their exclusive right and I, for one, accept it completely.

Your TA contains a very good Section 1, and your negotiators should be applauded for achieving it. Well done. It alone might well be reason enough to make a "yes" decision.

The other components may not be as attractive to the rest of us (particularly the proposed rates for the larger equipment) but again, given where you were in your current contract, there are significant improvements just about everywhere in the "book".

I believe this is your second contract. If that is correct, it is not reasonable for us to expect that you will match or better some other airline's fourth or fifth contract. In any case, you must do what you feel is in your best interests. I'm sure you will.

Having said all that, the only thing that I would ask is that as a group, you not misrepresent your relative achievements, and don't gloat about your potential to take flying from others because your contract helps your company to become the lowest bidder. When you do that, you create the impression that you are willing to sell the profession short, if that will get your company the business. Promote that concept and you will find yourselves very much alone. That may not matter to you today, but eventually it will.

Keep in mind that anyone else can make an agreement that undercuts your new TA, in a counter effort to keep you from becoming the lowest bidder. That sort of bidding war will hurt us all, including you.

We are all airline pilots. As such, what is bad for some of us is bad for all of us. The same applies when it is good. Be one with us. This TA may be right for you today, but it is not helpful to tell those that have struggled longer and achieved more, that you will be proud to take their flying because you work for less. You will not win any popularity contests like that.

Best of luck to all of you.

 

[mckpickle]

YOu guys are missing the BIGGEST POINT!!!!!!

If the company is intent on getting the 70 seaters they are most likey ready to sign for the airplanes. Do you think they will let a NO vote chanve that?

HELL NO You guys have the most leverage right NOW. The company will cave faster than a Mesa pilot. They are so excited to get these airplanes they will not let you stand in their way, and you can name your price.

Vote NO.

 

[low-key]

lets sum up the 70 seat pay problem right now. First off were not going to see any 170's for at least a year if we even do, so now were 2 and a half years down the road and the 170's are here on property on the line. we sign a 4 year deal in 10-03 that becomes amendable 6 months prior in 4-07. So we deal with the pay problem for what a year and a half or so? the next contract we go after pay, Rome wasnt built in a day folks and the curent TA is a great improvement to our old one.

 

[Airpiraterob]

Exphojump! good post!

Excellent Exphojump!!
someone finally sees the behind the scenes puzzle!!! its amazing how everyone totally ignored it (as it was about the best post in these 4 pages on the subject) and focused on the bickering about pay again. absolutely no acknolegement from the peanut gallery or the stage actors on this one.

i encourage everyone to scrollback a few posts and read the whole thing and just try to understand the BIG picture on what money goes where.

 

[TWAER]

Thank GOD!! I was going to vote yes on the TA, but mckpickle said I should vote no. I guess I will change my vote now!! WOW! It still amazes me how someone who:
A. Doesn't work for CHQ
B. Probably hasn't read past the compensation section
c. Never attended the road show

can tell me or anyone how THEY should vote.

When you have been at CHQ for more than 5 years, and have any clue what this company is all about and where this company has been in the past 5 years, then you can give me advise.

I will NEVER tell another pilot from another airline how to vote on a TA because unless I work there, I will NEVER have all the info. to give such advise. It may no be the best TA, but YOU may not have all the info.(even if the TA is posted on the web)

 

[rptrain]

Sorry rjcapt. I didn't do my own research, just what my union said. See you in DFW

Originally posted by TWAER
Thank GOD!! I was going to vote yes on the TA, but mckpickle said I should vote no. I guess I will change my vote now!! WOW! It still amazes me how someone who:
A. Doesn't work for CHQ
B. Probably hasn't read past the compensation section
c. Never attended the road show

yeah, make sure you attend that roadshow. otherwise you won't hear that the TA is better than CMR and ASA pay for 70 seaters.

we can't have folks critically reading and making up their minds on their own.