EMB 170 today at CHQ

[145EXR]

you guys just dont get it...look at those northwest pay scales and then the chataqua ones....northwest is LOOSING money in this economy and you are MAKING money...why are you gonna settle for those payrates? for the "fun" of flying a 70 seat jet? you keep saying that you need to keep your company profitable in this economy and allow for growth...ok...how much did your company MAKE this year?? how much did your management MAKE this year? how much of a BONUS did your mangement take this year? think about this and then ask yourself if you deserve to make (on average) 70k a year to fly a 70 seat jet (it may seem like good money now....think ahead 4-5 years..it wont seem like that much then)....you need to raise the bar..they CAN afford to pay you guys a LOT more and STILL make money.

 

[145EXR]

pilotrun

"You show me an airline that is losing money and has great morale! You can't cause there isn't one."

true,,but airtran southwest, and jetblue make money (just likeyour company does) and they have good morale (just like you state your company does)..BUT pilots at those carriers make good money!



" didn't get into this profession to get rich, I do it because I LOVE IT! "

go flght instruct or get another job...the rest of us feel we deserve a good payrate (you know...maybe own a house, drive a nice car, have a familiy with some financial security, not have to work our butts off to pay the bills)..i love my job too but i certainly dont feel we are comepensated properly for our job..the ONLY way to raise the bar is to be unified (all airline pilots) and raise the bar on salaries.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Why do you think CHQ is making money?

Because they tread on the backs of their employees and hold the threat of alter ego carriers over your head like a club. Same as any other regional airline.

I came to CHQ because of the great attitude by the employees.

Riiiight. You went to CHQ because they hired you first. I could be mistaken, but I doubt it.

If you check the bulletin boards you will see that CHQ pilots complain less than anyone else.

A bulliten board??? Now there is scientific evidence.

Why, because they are at a profitable company.

At those payrates it would be hard to be anything other than profitable.

 

[BlueCanoe]

the ONLY way to raise the bar is to be unified (all airline pilots) and raise the bar on salaries.

Go post that junk somewhere else. Appearantly, CoEx and Eagle pilots, I'm guessing MECH and 145EXR, don't get it. That is the sick spiral I'm talking about. Should we be compensated more? Certainly. However, this is still a competitive business, and until there is one aircarrier in America, free market rules. It's true about the WalMart philosophy. You could keep it real, and buy from those small business. As much as you bitch about your $$, I doubt you would. If you could walk into a store and pay $6 for the same item you could get at WalMart for $3, 9/10 times you'll pay $3, unless you are in dire straits.

.

look at those northwest pay scales and then the chataqua ones....northwest is LOOSING money in this economy and you are MAKING money...why are you gonna settle for those payrates?

Sounds like you answered your own question.

airtran southwest, and jetblue make money (just likeyour company does) and they have good morale (just like you state your company does)..

Thanks for the complement. Usually we just think of our selves as bottom-feeders. However, since we are measured with Eagle, AWAC, Mesaba, Mesa, ASA, and ComAir, however, our 60+ pay is higher than all of them(on airplanes we don't have). They have, and are currently operating 60+ seat AC, and all their pay is lower than our proposed rates. Who's the sell out? Please tell me CHQ, seeing as we have about half the pilots and aircraft of any of them. I appreciate the fact that our tiny company controls the destiny of the industry. It will do our pilot group good to hear that.

P.S. Since we are so esteemed in the industry, next time I'm running late and you're ahead of me, it would be right nice of ya'll to tell approach you could take a vector so CHQ can be #1 for the field. Thanks in advance for your cooperation

 

[FlyinBrian]

Some folks around here seem to think that a company should value your salary over their profit. That is a ridiculous proposition. Just because they have millions in the kitty at the end of the year doesn't mean the employees are entitled to split it amongst themselves. Do you realize that if you demand that a company give you their profits, they will eventually realize the futility of remaining in business and put you out of a job?

A company should pay the lowest wage at which they will have enough employees to run the company successfully. That's how you make profit: By paying as little as you can and charging as much as you can. That's why Southwest has always made money.

In the long run, you can't escape supply and demand, no matter what union represents you. There will always be a lot of pilots willing to work for less than $150 an hour. If you don't like it, find a job for which there is a smaller supply of qualified labor.

 

[Torpid]

Ok here is where the CHQ pilots TA is very very good. The rates of pay are better than what we had, but here it comes:

THE CONTRACT IS ONLY FOR 4 YEARS!!!!

After that we re-evaluate the state of the aviation community and go from there. + we can open negotiations 6mo. before end of contract.

Who else these days has a 4-year deal??????

We got screw*ed at Skywest. We only got an 18 month contract.

 

[rjcap]

Bluecanoe,

Thanks for the complement, putting CHQ with that group and all. Since we are measured with Eagle, AWAC, Mesaba, Mesa, ASA, and ComAir, however, our 60+ pay is higher than all of them.

You might want to check that for the 70 seat rate. I believe ASA and Comair are substantially higher than your new TA.

 

[BlueCanoe]

Sorry rjcapt. I didn't do my own research, just what my union said. See you in DFW

 

[rjcap]

Sorry rjcapt. I didn't do my own research, just what my union said. See you in DFW

Blue,

I believe there was a link to your TA here somewhere. I recall reviewing the payrates and I would have remembered if your 70 seat rate was higher then Comair or ASA.

Do you have that link to your TA ???

 

[surplus1]

. However, since we are measured with Eagle, AWAC, Mesaba, Mesa, ASA, and ComAir, however, our 60+ pay is higher than all of them(on airplanes we don't have). They have, and are currently operating 60+ seat AC, and all their pay is lower than our proposed rates.

Ahhhh sorry, but your statement is not exactly accurate with respect to Comair (the others can speak for themselves). The actual numbers are as follows for Captains (since your FO rates are much lower I won't even go there):.

CHQ (60 - 78 seats TA) --------- CMR (70-seat 06/03)

1. 53.55 --------------------------- 1. 63.79

5. 64.35 --------------------------- 5. 72.06

10. 74.96 ------------------------- 10. 85.44

15. 87.28 ------------------------- 11. 99.49

18. N/A 18. 108.71

Your TA does not provide an 18/yr rate until 2005. At that time the comparison is:

18. 99.24 -------------------------- 18. 118.22

I am not criticizing your TA, but to say that your rates are higher than CMR is simply less than accurate. There are also many other direct compensation provisions in your TA that are substantially lower, e.g., premium pay - open time (you have none), displacement protection (you have very little), deadhead 75% vs. 100%, rigs (you have none), etc. Your perdiem is also lower and you have no retirement benefit.

Your new contract may very well be beneficial to you, but it is not at all beneficial to us. It will simply increase the pressure for us to make concessions or result in the transfer of more of our flying to you. I'm not saying you shouldn't be happy, but if we are not cheering, try to understand why.

Best wishes.

 

[rjcap]

Blue,

I found your TA. Your payrates are lower then ASA's 5 year old contract.

5th year 70 seat rate ASA 68.01 CHQ 64.35.

I'm not certain but Comair's is something like 72.00


You may want to read the agreement and not just listen to your union reps.

 

[rjcap]

I believe he mis typed and meant 78+ rates.

Exactly which 78 seat jet is it that CHQ is operating ?

 

[surplus1]

Exactly which 78 seat jet is it that CHQ is operating ?

The answere is of course, none. The TA puts money into aircraft that the airline does not operate and that the Scope clauses of ALL its current and potential codeshare partners specifically prohibit. Interesting.

 

[BlueCanoe]

I have read my TA several times, not anyone elses.

Of course after I posted my retraction, surplus1 jumped in. I sincerely hope ASA nor Comair lowers their rates. I think ASA and Comair, while purchased by Delta, yet not integrated into Delta have other things to worry about than us. Then again in your old, and far superior contracts you didn't have 70 seaters did you?

Surplus1, just because your few letters in bold said you weren't criticizing the TA, the rest of your post did. You guys oughta call PSA, Piedmont, Allegheny and Eagle. You know sit in a dark room, ignore the rest of the world and stroke each other. It'll feel good. I promise.

Enjoy being Junior Manned...

 

[rjcap]

Then again in your old, and far superior contracts you didn't have 70 seaters did you?

No we didn't. The issue brought up by surplus is that 78 seat a/c is prohibited by mainline scope from being operated by any DCI regional wholly owned or affiliate. Negotiating a payrate for a nonexistant and restricted aircraft should raise scepticism among your pilots.

Regarding you junior man comment I will simply respond by saying that your TA is weak. You caved in too early.

 

[anon]

CHQ friends ... don't get your hopes up too much.

If you exceed DCI scope limits on aircraft size, you will no longer fly for DCI.

 

[exphojump]

Northwest is not the best example.

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/nsd/nwac/reports/10qq203.pdf

Total stockholder equity is -2.57billion(LUV is over + 4.0 billion)

Second quarter revenue was about 2.3 billion, so it would take at least 11 quarters of 10% profits to bring them equal to ATAs balance sheet.

ATA 757 CA rate(216 seats soon to be 200 seats)

1. 37.50
2. 131.26
3. 132.85
4. 134.45
5. 135.93

FO

1. 37.50
2. 63.66
3. 70.59
4. 77.93
5. 85.35

So why not flame ATA for bringing down the industry. Good grief flying a 200+ seat for less than NWAC pilots are making on the (78seat) DC-9s. While your at it blast Airtran, Frontier, JetBlue, and AWA.

Is Chautauqua's contract a shining example, no? Is it a total cop out like Mesa, no? It's better than Mesa and inferior to Comair(go figure).

Chautauqua sub contracts out to DAL. In order to provide the same seat mile costs as the wholly owned regionals. They have to provide cost+profit margin just to equal Comair's cost. Pilot pay will probably not be equal and still provide the same cost.

JMO

 

[LearLove]

"2/26 Interview
Congrats to us both. I interviewed on 2/26, and heard from Rosa Mosley on 3/5. Got a training date of 3/24.
There are 3 of us that i know of so far that interviewed and got hired.
Now i want to find some info on what to expect during training.
From the week of Indoc. to ground to sim

Look forward to meeting you"

The above post is from PilotRon several months back.

I try to keep my post on this board along the lines of helping others and giving advise which I've been given or generated from 14 years of flying and 6 six short years making my living as a pilot.

However I sit here and read PilotRon's post of the past few days as he beats his chest in ref. to his company and the TA. He posts on here like his Poop smells like roses and can't be touched, when in reality he's a new hire who had nothing to do with the current TA and has barely enough time at CHQ to find the crew room (even if you did work in the industry before CHQ) without getting lost let alone make statements about his companies financial state, its future, and the future of the industry as a whole. Even industry leaders such as Don Carty and others can only speculate about the industry right now and make assumptions based on trends, but you boldly state that you've made the correct choices based on some greater avaition knowledge that we lowly other pilots don't have.

For example:

....because I make good decisions and make smart choices..."

I love it here where he makes ref. to his choice to fly for CHQ. Choice buddy, you were hirred in March 2003. You didn't have many choices of where to go. CHQ was one of the few hirring. Take yourself back 4 years - say United offered you a job and CHQ too, your saying that you would have gone to CHQ over UAL back in 1999.

I say the above to prove a piont many of us here already know too well, listen up, YOUR decision (in ref. to the company you work for) and YOUR future in avaition have little to do with each other. I remember a time when CHQ was down to 7 or so J31's (not sure the exact number) and it looked bleak for you guys. There have also been time in the past where my own company looked bleak and it turned around. We also know there a companies that have't turned around and are now gone, example Pocano. So what am I saying PilotRon, your descision has to due with luck as much as anything else not some chest beating greater then everyother pilot aviation knowledge you claim to have.

About your house: I doubt that at 20 or so bucks per hour and less than 6 months on line that the cash you've made at CHQ has had anything to do with paying off your home. But cudos too you if it's true.

Where does that leave us PilotRon? I don't claim to be a flightinfo saint or some all knowing pilot but I would suggest you hang out for awhile and post where you can help and not beat your chest and trash other guys with less LUCK (look there's that word again - it will become familar during your career). I would also suggest you take example for some of the senior CHQ guys around here, they are the ones that got you this new agreement and will allow you to stay in the 2600 sq ft home.

So please stick around and grow with us, learn with us, joke with us, and grieve with us, but please don't put us down for stuff we have no control over.

Enough Said

PS - CHQ guys - congrats on the TA - anything thats an improvment in this environment is a big accomplishment.

 

[RPA]

KingAirer, your right about this thread getting "out of control". But, a good discussion.

In the spirit of the topic subject, here's more picts of the 170 @ IND:

Pict 5

Pict 6

Pict 7

Pict 8

Pict 9

Pict 10

 

[BlueCanoe]

Nicely done Lear. Sorry to hear US is crapping on you guys. What are the plans over at Allegheny? It's kind of a funny thing. When I started at CHQ, all we had were props. No one in the world would have ever thought we'd have the stroke of luck we've had. I remember being envious of my peers getting hired at Eagle, CoEx and U W/O. W/O and independents all have their ups and downs. If anything bad happens to Allegheny, it'd be a pleasure to fly with you, if our luck continues.

Cheers