EMB 170 today at CHQ

[BlueCanoe]

You make a couple of assumptions:

1) I REALLY REALLY want to be an airline pilot. Well, that one is wrong. I want to fly airplanes professionally. I could careless if it's at an airline, corporate or even back to CFIing. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the life of showing up 45 minutes prior, all the planning done, etc. If someone REALLY REALLY wants to fly for a major, great for them. Don't screw me in the process of "Keepin' it real".

2) NWA does fly the DC-9-10 for a lot more than we do. I'm not to old, but if I keep flying larger and larger equipment, MY quality of life and pay increase. Eventually, the evolution will continue. There are others now flying 19-30 seat turboprops for less than we can. If UAL goes under, then our CEO will find a codeshare. (Also, it seems, that you forget how much lift UAL provides. Someone will have to provide it. Maybe some planes will leave the desert, maybe not who knows)

Don't get me wrong, we all have hopes and dreams. A friend of mine always wanted to be a UAL 757-767 driver, and he achieved it. Now, due to the misfortunes of the industry, he is back here as an FO. Such is life. Maybe, just maybe I'm happy where I am. I will be at CHQ for awhile, and you know what? As the position of my company increases in the industry, my job security (if there is such a thing) also increases.

Everyone needs to get the Regulated Industry standards out of their craniums. The bench marks are SWA, ATA, AirTran and JetBlue. They are proven profit machines, while the archane structures of labor and MGT at the "Majors" are loosers. Until a major restructuring of the industry occurs, it will continue to be a viscious cycle of severe loss and profits. People like you contribute to it. ALPA contributes. Airline MGT contributes. Anyone who does not recognize how to compete in a free-market are doomed. The detroit auto industry went through death spasms that finally proved a wake-up call. Now the industry is competitive on the world market again. Until that happens in this industry, the traditional carriers will not succeed. Remember MetroJet, Shuttle by United, Continental Lite? They were all half hearted attempts to restructure, and failed.

Don't blame us for give backs. We're not giving anything back to the company. Our TA and our company. If your insinuation was true, then the cost of quashing an alter-ego would have been a concessionary contract. We can't help that the majors have priced them selves out of the seat range. Point the finger at Spirit or SunJet for flying cheap, not us.

 

[Airpiraterob]

Q: Whats a teacher gonna make after 20 years teaching? and how much work do they put in?
A: not much more than what they started with, and more effort than you put in at your job. They dont sit around giving out tests and grading papers while letting the classroom flight attendant teach the subject and take care of the kids. they do it all...Consider yourself unbelieveably fukking lucky to have even this!!! get some perspective would ya? so i just might have to present this stuff as i would have to teaching a classroom.

wake up kids. you cant grab whats near you and shout 'mine!' cause it isnt. THIS IS NOT YOUR MARKET. its theirs. they could pay a million dollars a day to each pilot at chq, and yall would be here talking smack about the QOL issues...(ie: your milk is warm)
...yes...it would be like that...dont even deny it! there would always be something to piss you off regardless of the money you make! seems to me thats all this is about...money....and your greedy little fingers.

is nothing good enough for yall? does it not matter that again..THIS IS THE BEST TA YET SINCE 9/11! thers always something that yall arent gonna be happy with...well...so what. suck it up panzies. be a man and go to work and earn a living. even if its a small one...its better than NOTHING! and its what you love to do! just like a teacher! they start out with more than an FO would but they dont have a chance to make 100k a year at the end now do they? we're trying to get ourselves above the consessionary agreements out there and are succeeding for the most part. mabye not entirely but we are....it takes work a little bit at a time.....

so fo rthe kids that arent following me:
How do you climb a mountain? with hard work and lots of small steps. SET UP BASE CAMP AND ACLIMITIZE..then go a bit further. all the pilot groups from all the airlines do not make up the sole person climbing this hill...its one group..the CHQ group with everyone else out there playing king of the hill. were not on top. and theres only one thats going to be at any one time. so what.....were at a base camp...preparing another assault to get closer to the summit. were still dreaming big to get there..and we will sometime...but we know we cant run to the top immediately. we started from quite a ways away.

no this is not the attitude that puts the industry down....its the methodical way that gets you to your goal. slower but on more of a firm footing.

theres all kinds of low paying jobs out there...youd be suprised how **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** hard it is to get a job nowdays that even pays close to 25k the first year.
Q: whats a bunch of pilots in a room called?
A: a Whine cellar!

 

[bogberto]

KingAirer: MAG didn't give up any pay in our new anchor, I mean contract. We've always been the bottom of the payscale.

No matter how much we get paid, we'll always want more. We're normal human beings. But until we get the passengers to complain for us, nothing will happen. What if we want (for a 50-seater) $150/hr Captain and $100/hr FO. Sounds great, no? That will cost the paying passengers $5.00 per hour (per seat). Right now at Orstein Airways, a 4th-year crew costs $1.70/hr per seat. CHQ TA 3rd year will cost $1.83/hr/seat.

I think the pax are willing to pay.

Granted, to pay us all 150/100 would actually cost more than $5/hr/pax due to benefits and reserve crews, but it's still extremely possible.

 

[Medeco]

payrates

Hey Guys,

For what its worth ASA CRJ200 Fo's Make

1YR 19.02
2YR 33.65

8Yr 38.63

This was done in 1999 I think and we are 1 yr past contract exp.


CHQ pilots you need to raise the bar .

Vote NO

 

[DoinTime]

Could someone please post the 70 and 90 seat rates at the majors so I can compare?

NWA DC-9-10 (78-seat RJ) payrates effective this month.

NWA Capt:
1 - 175.45
2 - 176.87
3 - 178.30
4 - 179.75
5 - 181.18
12 - 191.20

CHQ Capt (for same aircraft):
1 - 53.55
2 - 56.70
3 - 60.55
4 - 62.44
5 - 64.35
12 - 80.01


NWA FO:
1 - 39.76
2 - 88.44
3 - 106.98
4 - 109.64
5 - 112.33
12 - 130.01

CHQ FO:
1 - 21.00
2 - 28.25
3 - 32.50
4 - 33.50
5 - N/A
12 - N/A

I don't think I need to mention the other contract benefits that NWA pilots enjoy over the CHQ guys.

 

[dispatchguy]

The bench marks are SWA, ATA, AirTran and JetBlue. They are proven profit machines, while the archane structures of labor and MGT at the "Majors" are loosers. Until a major restructuring of the industry occurs, it will continue to be a viscious cycle of severe loss and profits.

Truer words were never spoken. 9/11 brought on a paradigm shift in the industry, the majors will still be there for their international flying, and their long-haul domestic stuff, but people arent about to pay 20 bucks a minute to ride a B737 INDORD, like the old full Y fares of a few years ago. For that kinda $ in airfare, I should get something more than a bag o peanuts.

 

[TWAER]

Like I said before:

1. If you have not been to the road show
2. Have not read the TA at least twice

You are full of it coming on hear telling me how to vote. Until you do # 1 and 2, you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[bogberto]

Re: payrates

Hey Guys,

For what its worth ASA CRJ200 Fo's Make

1YR 19.02
2YR 33.65

8Yr 38.63

This was done in 1999 I think and we are 1 yr past contract exp.


CHQ pilots you need to raise the bar .

Vote NO

Anyone know what profit margin Comair and ASA make?

Anyone know what profit margin TransStates and Chautauqua make?

 

[Cardinal]

NWA DC-9-10 (78-seat RJ) payrates effective this month:

Wow, what a comparison. Almost 3 times the compensation in many of those years. And it should be noted, even after September 11th NW continues to fly those elderly (1969-1970 build dates) -10s, and apparently can at least break even with the machines. Firstly, that's good for Northwest, and second, that means that such costs can indeed be borne by a network carrier.

 

[MECH]

Southwest is not the problem. Next year they will be the highest paid B-737 in the industry. The problem is us at the regionals. You saw it above CHQ, MSA, CMR, ASA, and others are willing to fly a 70 to 90 seat jet for half price.

It is no different then Walmart going into a town and charging half as much as the local businesses.

The line in the sand has to be drawn. We will be senior pilots at these companies getting bigger and bigger airplanes with no increase in pay.

It is our need to fly a bigger and faster airplane we forgot about our future. Unforunately it looks like for most of us it will be about 120 bucks an hour max with no pensions. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

[145EXR]

you guys just dont get it...look at those northwest pay scales and then the chataqua ones....northwest is LOOSING money in this economy and you are MAKING money...why are you gonna settle for those payrates? for the "fun" of flying a 70 seat jet? you keep saying that you need to keep your company profitable in this economy and allow for growth...ok...how much did your company MAKE this year?? how much did your management MAKE this year? how much of a BONUS did your mangement take this year? think about this and then ask yourself if you deserve to make (on average) 70k a year to fly a 70 seat jet (it may seem like good money now....think ahead 4-5 years..it wont seem like that much then)....you need to raise the bar..they CAN afford to pay you guys a LOT more and STILL make money.

 

[145EXR]

pilotrun

"You show me an airline that is losing money and has great morale! You can't cause there isn't one."

true,,but airtran southwest, and jetblue make money (just likeyour company does) and they have good morale (just like you state your company does)..BUT pilots at those carriers make good money!



" didn't get into this profession to get rich, I do it because I LOVE IT! "

go flght instruct or get another job...the rest of us feel we deserve a good payrate (you know...maybe own a house, drive a nice car, have a familiy with some financial security, not have to work our butts off to pay the bills)..i love my job too but i certainly dont feel we are comepensated properly for our job..the ONLY way to raise the bar is to be unified (all airline pilots) and raise the bar on salaries.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Why do you think CHQ is making money?

Because they tread on the backs of their employees and hold the threat of alter ego carriers over your head like a club. Same as any other regional airline.

I came to CHQ because of the great attitude by the employees.

Riiiight. You went to CHQ because they hired you first. I could be mistaken, but I doubt it.

If you check the bulletin boards you will see that CHQ pilots complain less than anyone else.

A bulliten board??? Now there is scientific evidence.

Why, because they are at a profitable company.

At those payrates it would be hard to be anything other than profitable.

 

[BlueCanoe]

the ONLY way to raise the bar is to be unified (all airline pilots) and raise the bar on salaries.

Go post that junk somewhere else. Appearantly, CoEx and Eagle pilots, I'm guessing MECH and 145EXR, don't get it. That is the sick spiral I'm talking about. Should we be compensated more? Certainly. However, this is still a competitive business, and until there is one aircarrier in America, free market rules. It's true about the WalMart philosophy. You could keep it real, and buy from those small business. As much as you bitch about your $$, I doubt you would. If you could walk into a store and pay $6 for the same item you could get at WalMart for $3, 9/10 times you'll pay $3, unless you are in dire straits.

.

look at those northwest pay scales and then the chataqua ones....northwest is LOOSING money in this economy and you are MAKING money...why are you gonna settle for those payrates?

Sounds like you answered your own question.

airtran southwest, and jetblue make money (just likeyour company does) and they have good morale (just like you state your company does)..

Thanks for the complement. Usually we just think of our selves as bottom-feeders. However, since we are measured with Eagle, AWAC, Mesaba, Mesa, ASA, and ComAir, however, our 60+ pay is higher than all of them(on airplanes we don't have). They have, and are currently operating 60+ seat AC, and all their pay is lower than our proposed rates. Who's the sell out? Please tell me CHQ, seeing as we have about half the pilots and aircraft of any of them. I appreciate the fact that our tiny company controls the destiny of the industry. It will do our pilot group good to hear that.

P.S. Since we are so esteemed in the industry, next time I'm running late and you're ahead of me, it would be right nice of ya'll to tell approach you could take a vector so CHQ can be #1 for the field. Thanks in advance for your cooperation

 

[FlyinBrian]

Some folks around here seem to think that a company should value your salary over their profit. That is a ridiculous proposition. Just because they have millions in the kitty at the end of the year doesn't mean the employees are entitled to split it amongst themselves. Do you realize that if you demand that a company give you their profits, they will eventually realize the futility of remaining in business and put you out of a job?

A company should pay the lowest wage at which they will have enough employees to run the company successfully. That's how you make profit: By paying as little as you can and charging as much as you can. That's why Southwest has always made money.

In the long run, you can't escape supply and demand, no matter what union represents you. There will always be a lot of pilots willing to work for less than $150 an hour. If you don't like it, find a job for which there is a smaller supply of qualified labor.