EJA/Hawker Midair w/ Glider....Everyone OK - Merged!

[G4G5]

I always knew that a glider was faster then a Hawker. Now I have proof.

 

[Wantfrys]

was wondering if they landed on the runway or the grass on the side? What would most people elect to do? I would think very hard about landing in the grass ,if it was flat, since you might keep the sparks from the fuel.

 

[Steve]

Glider drivers, when above 18,000, are you required to be on an IFR flight plan? Also, do you use flight following?

No IFR flight plan when above 18,000 since only a few gliders exist that are ifr capable. ATC will usually accommodate requests into the class A, especially when arrangements are made prior to the proposed flight. The controller will usually give you a block of airspace (12,000-15,000) and ask for you to report anytime exiting that block. Not sure if the glider in the accident had a transponder but I’m guessing no since most don’t and aren’t required to. This usually makes it hard for the controller to see them on radar considering most of the new high performance ships are fiberglass. I've had more than one close call in Upstate NY (the mecca of glider flying) with RJ's. Close enough to see the DC headset on the FO and his head down in the cockpit. I know you guys have your checklists to run but collision avoidance is the responsibility of all pilots (when in vmc). Lets not start putting all the blame on the glider pilot.

 

[C680]

Let the NTSB do their job.

... but collision avoidance is the responsibility of all pilots (when in vmc). Lets not start putting all the blame on the glider pilot.

Let's see...and avoid...and who had the right of way. Cannot argue this, so lets not start placing blame.

This is still the time to heap praise and credit to the flight crew of the NetJets bird for their superb airmanship.

 

[Steve]

was wondering if they landed on the runway or the grass on the side? What would most people elect to do? I would think very hard about landing in the grass ,if it was flat, since you might keep the sparks from the fuel.

Avbug did a great write up a while back about this topic. Hopefully he will write in. The jist of it was that most aircraft will be far more damaged from landing on grass then a paved runway. The chance of losing controll or digging the nose in on grass is also much higher. Pilots gear up airplanes a few times a week in the US alone and walk away from it after all. Can't be that dangerous on a paved runway.

 

[acaTerry]

was wondering if they landed on the runway or the grass on the side? What would most people elect to do? I would think very hard about landing in the grass ,if it was flat, since you might keep the sparks from the fuel.

With a damaged jet that weighs over 18,000 lbs? At jet approach speeds (which I am sure she incresed due to airframe damage)? Yer kidding right?

 

[Wantfrys]

I know that the airplane was heavly damaged and it would not be smart for this example, but I was wondering how many other people in other examples would be thinking of the grass.
Thanks steve for the reply i found avbugs thread and he has good points as always.
Again try not to bash me I was just asking a question that i think other people would think of in the heat of the moment.

 

[h25b]

With a damaged jet that weighs over 18,000 lbs? At jet approach speeds (which I am sure she incresed due to airframe damage)? Yer kidding right?

The Hawkers I believe have a stringer running the length of the underneath of the airplane that essentially makes a belly landing a non-event (structurally speaking)... I believe the checklist calls for a gear-up landing in the event of NWS misalignment. So from an engineering standpoint they don't seem too concerned about belly landings. They used to show a video of one doing a gear up landing in recurrent.

 

[Steve]

I know that the airplane was heavly damaged and it would not be smart for this example, but I was wondering how many other people in other examples would be thinking of the grass.
Thanks steve for the reply i found avbugs thread and he has good points as always.
Again try not to bash me I was just asking a question that i think other people would think of in the heat of the moment.

Sorry if it came off as a bash. It was not meant that way at all. I used to think that grass would be a good idea incase of a stuck gear in the light twins I fly mostly. I've since come to the personal conclusion that if a aircraft is not designed to be operated on grass using it for the first time in an emergency, gear or no gear, is probibly not a good idea.

 

[cjdriver]

The Hawker has a keel, designed to be used for a belly landing, and can be removed for repair. We actually got to do a gear up landing in the sim, and it was quite realistic, shook the sim pretty good. You land gear up when you can't get the NWS centered so you don't depart the runway on landing. Also, the Hawker is a tank. I think one took a SAM in Africa once and made it down OK. There might be some pictures of it out there somewhere.