EJA/Hawker Midair w/ Glider....Everyone OK - Merged!

[NJA bound]

Yep, congrats to the crew, awesome job.

 

[XJAVRO]

Ok Stevie,

With all the moutains around the area where this happened did the glilder choose to be in a area known to have a lot of commerical jet traffic. There are many other areas around the area to glide. That area is a normal arrival route for RNO, everyone knows it that is from the area.

It is high time that anytime you want to go over 10000ft you have a transponder on.

I'll answer this question. I have a ton of time flying gliders where this happened. The glider pilot was flying in a normal area for glider ops. There is a ton of glider flying in that area of the carrson valley. It is the soaring capital of the world. That is where the glider world altitude record was set. Most times of the year there is standing box that allows us to go up to FL600. I've been up to FL380 in a glider there. The glider I fly has a transponder and a radio. I talk to ATC, but as long as they stay in the box the are not required to talk to anyone. 16000ft in that area is low for a glider. Most pilots can get up there on a day with weak thermals.

 

[Jetz]

Huh?

Didn't you see Conspiracy Theory ? Space Shuttle crashes are linked to earthquakes. Last time the Shuttle blew up, one of our planes was destroyed and the crew did a hero's job of saving everyone, but it was never news.

What r u talking about? Not the one that became a piece of texas toast at the end of the short runway. (?)

 

[C680]

Leakey

What r u talking about? Not the one that became a piece of texas toast at the end of the short runway. (?)

Maybe he refers to the Leakey, Tx accident.

 

[Guitar rocker]

I'll answer this question. I have a ton of time flying gliders where this happened. The glider pilot was flying in a normal area for glider ops. There is a ton of glider flying in that area of the carrson valley. It is the soaring capital of the world. That is where the glider world altitude record was set. Most times of the year there is standing box that allows us to go up to FL600. I've been up to FL380 in a glider there. The glider I fly has a transponder and a radio. I talk to ATC, but as long as they stay in the box the are not required to talk to anyone. 16000ft in that area is low for a glider. Most pilots can get up there on a day with weak thermals.

But perhaps even if the gliders folks stay in the "box," a radio and transponder are a small price to pay in order to enhance the safety of that type of operation. I know some would be up in arms over new regulations that would require a radio and transponder for gliders, but I wonder if the glider pilot involved will be getting those two items for his next glider?

To the crew of the hawker...you guys did an excellent job.

 

[RTRHD]

But perhaps even if the gliders folks stay in the "box," a radio and transponder are a small price to pay in order to enhance the safety of that type of operation. I know some would be up in arms over new regulations that would require a radio and transponder for gliders, but I wonder if the glider pilot involved will be getting those two items for his next glider?

To the crew of the hawker...you guys did an excellent job.

I can see a transponder, but wouldn’t a radio defeat the whole purpose of going soaring. But I am not a glider pilot and I have enough time with no power. And that helicopter Schweitzer makes does not glide worth a $hit. LOL:laugh:

 

[727gm]

Great airmanship, agreed. The glorious Hawker pulls through, again.

Normal run-of-the-mill airmanship to see and avoid the glider in the first place, thereby avoiding demonstration of great airmanship.

Noticed(in 1st post) that the sheriff assumed the glider had hit the jet. Not probable: with the airspeed differential, the glider was in front of the Hawker (in view, in the front windscreen). The larger the speed differential, the narrower the cone of airspace in directly in front of the faster aircraft the slower ship will be located in.

There were two pilots in the jet, one should be looking out in VFR conditions below 18000 especially outside of Class B airspace. The glider also has the right-of-way(not to say a glider would crash rather than yield) over powered aircraft.

There is a major problem today with too much head-down button-pushing, and an assumption that if the TCAS is clear, there's no need to look outside.

Most gliders have no electrical system and no place to put an expensive TCAS system. A mode-C transponder would be nice, and they ARE getting smaller. Gliders carry no fuel, so can stay up far longer than a continuously-replying transponder's battery could last. Many have no nav or com radios. Many have no oxygen, and are therefore below 14000/12500 feet. Typically those above 14000 are better outfitted, with radios, GPS, 0xy, and (possibly) a transponder. Those above 18000 feet will normally be in a "wave window", a letter-of-agreement defined box that ATC will not be letting any other traffic into (very small defined area worked out for Wave flights), so not a problem for airplanes in Class A airspace.

They DO have great visibility. I've seen many jets, 210's, Bonanzas, etc, that I don't think ever saw me, but the glider doesn't have a cockpit full of "Attractive Nuisances" to detract from the job of seeing-and-avoiding.

 

[FLYLOW22]

To the crew of the hawker...you guys did an excellent job.

She and he did an AWESOME job!

 

[Guitar rocker]

I can see a transponder, but wouldn’t a radio defeat the whole purpose of going soaring. But I am not a glider pilot and I have enough time with no power. And that helicopter Schweitzer makes does not glide worth a $hit. LOL:laugh:

How would a radio defeat the purpose of soaring? I wonder, how would you then define soaring? Would that be flying around without a radio or perhaps flying an aircraft that is not powered? Wouldnt it be nice to listen and hear who else is around? Maybe I am just too used to using and listening to a radio, but I dont see how that could possibly interfere with soaring.

 

[Dr Pokenhiemer]

I'm sure the glider profile is very small and narrow. I haven't seen anything yet that talks about the direction of the 2 acft involved. Someone brought up the right of way issue. The glider may have been struck from behind--he may have started a climb just at the wrong instance and pulled up into the path of the Hawker--who knows? This sounds like one of those freak accidents that happen occasionally where on one hand it's not either person's fault, and on the other hand both are equally to blame. The bottom line is noone got seriously hurt (which is a miracle in itself). My hat's off to all involved and wish to never be put in that position myself! BTW, I'd also go for the asphalt rather than grass--less chance of hitting a rut and cartwheeling--AVN 101.