EJA & FSI deal...

[Chunk]

Has anyone heard about a tentative deal between EJA and FSI in Vero Beach to hire their students? Word is (rumors from FSI) that the deal is nearly done.

EJA pilots: Any opinions??

Cheers,

Chunk

 

[1900cpt]

I have not heard that, but if I do hear anything I will post it hear. As for my personal opinion......I doubt it. Not to bad mouth the FSI-Vero Beach folks, but there are plenty of highly qualified people on furlough out there that are trying to get in at EJA.

1900cpt

 

[Kenny]

Guys,

Have to say when I heard about this, I thought there wasn't a hope in hell of it happening. But I've seen the proposed course structure and sylabus, flight times, ground school, etc.

Not much has officially been said but I have it from a very relaible source that IT IS going to happen. Something to remember is that anyone who goes through the course isn't going to be in anything other than the Ultra for at least 2 years.

Guess miracles do happen!!

 

[Chunk]

cool...

So let me get this straight....

After going to a school I was planning on attending anyway, I "get stuck" flying a Citation Ultra for Executive Jet, an innovative growing company that I could easily spend a career at, for at least two years?


Where's the downside?


Sign me up!



Cheers,

Chunk

 

[Kenny]

Chunk,

Don't get carried away too soon! From what I've heard EJA are going to want a lot higher times than ASA wanted. Which means that you may well have to work as an instructor to get the mins. Oh and it's going to cost about $20,000 on top of getting everything at FSI.

 

[Chunk]

ahhh....that's okay

I never planned on doing the "direct track" thing...

The risk of furlough without time/experience/CFI-I-MEI was too great for my blood even before 9/11 !

I was gonna do it the quasi-old fashioned way...instruct...build hours...get interview! Hey, if FSI wanted to pay for the CFI-I-MEI in exchange for a promise of 800 paid hours as an instructor (mostly multi time) then arrange an interview with ASA at the end of it, I'm willing to slide a few numbers back on the seniority escalator for a little piece of mind, free certificates, and a bunch of multi time. Oh, and not PAY $20K, too!!!


Chunk

 

[Timebuilder]

I'll be disappointed if this goes through, as I have already "paid" several years of experience, along with a tremendous sum of money in the hopes of being hired at EJA. Now, I'll have to call Alan, uproot myself to Vero, pay another $20k, and HOPE that I can get in? Sheesh!
I hope this won't mean that the rest of us are cut cut out of the loop....

Tell you what, guys. I'll call him today and find out the scoop, from his end.

 

[Kenny]

Timebuilder

I can understand what you mean. When I heard about it my first thought was that there was no way it would happen. Why would you want to take low time pilots with no commercial experience, even as instructors. Especially in the current climate, when there are a bunch of more qualified, more experienced pilots out there who would jump at the chance.

I think the reasoning is that FSI and EJA are both part of the same company and could help each other out. Part of the sales pitch to prospective students is that "Do your training at FSI, become an instructor and you'll get a job quicker". Well, right now that's not happening. All the instructors are in limbo and the pool of budding instructors is building by about 10 every month. If they don't find something for their instructors to move onto, then it doesn't exactly create an optimistic picture for prospective students. As far as EJA are concerned, they need 700 pilots next year and maybe feel the Ultra is something a "low" time pilot could manage. Leaving the more experienced pilots to fly the bigger equipment.

I won't even go into the amount FSI outlayed for the ASA program and the SAAB 2000 sim that's not being used right now.

P.S. if the Alan you're refering to is AH, good luck at getting an honest answer.

 

[Timebuilder]

You're a sharp guy! No, that isn't the Alan I'm talking about, but I DO know who you mean, he's a Nascar fan, right?
Actually, I did a little unscheduled ground school today, and got in a little "actual" with an instrument student who is just about ready for his checkride. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to call the OTHER Alan tomorrow. I just hope that I can still get in with EJA without spending ANOTHER $20k. For that, I'd expect a type rating in a G-IV.

 

[Bebop]

The rumor that I have heard while flying the line with EJA is:

EJA will buy a buttload of 6 seat jets. The kind that the nimbus group ordered 1000 of. (I forget the name of the jet) They will use these with FSI grads and an instructor to transport EJA crews around the country. That means no more airlining to pick up an airplane.

That is only a rumor I have heard.

Bebop

 

[maxcackel]

The ultra is the plane to be used for training so far. A syllabus leaked out this week of the program and a few people saw it so at least there is a little info.
Hey Timebuilder and Kenny I've had a run in with AH once, how do you know him and what did you mean by no straight answer?

 

[Timebuilder]

Sorry I am so late in finishing off my post from above. It's after 10:30 pm now, and I had a teriffic headwind in the Navajo on the way home from Utica. Anyway, I called FSI today, and I found that the Alan I know has recently left FSI, and the voicemail goes to AH's mailbox!!! But I digress....
I sopke to a young lady in the marketing department, and I found that there will be an arangement with EJA to help prospective pilots prepare for FO jobs in the Ultra. The basic info is that FSI will launch a program to provide jet transition training to those who have all their certs, including MEI. When found proficient, those FO candidates will go to EJA for on the job evaluation and experience, and when appropriate will return to FSI for the type rating. I was told that this will effectively circumvent the 2500 and 500 hiring requirement at EJA. My personal sense is that this will create a very long probationary period, and there will no doubt be a substantial charge for this training, and I expect to see a lower pay scale for these hires. On Monday, I expect to get some info on pricing and time period.

In addition, the candidates from the ASA program are now described as working on "advanced airline training", and they are awaiting the word from ASA on when they can begin moving out the pipe again for Atlanta.

As far as not being able to get a straight answer from certain individuals, let's just say it's the FSI version of the Riddle Runaround. Nuff said.

 

[Kenny]

This is what I managed to find out over the last few days:

Firstly, if you don't want to do the smart thing and be an instructor, as time builder mentioned you will be requried to have your CFI, CFII and MEI. Plus, you'll have to pay $11,000 for the training, provided you pass the initial interview with EJA.

Secondly, if you do become an instructor, it's back to the old 800 hours deal. At which time you'll interview with EJA and if you pass, you'll get a conditional offer of employment. You'll then do 35 hours ground school and 10 hours in the citation sim.

If you're already an instructor and have finished with 800 hours you go straight to the interview, followed by the ground school and sim.

There is some time in the ultra and ultra sim, but theses amounts are yet to be decided.

The advanced airline training for ASA students is just a different name for the same training course that was done when ASA was still hiring. Seems there are still some that don't mind parting with a large amount of money to go to an Airline that isn't hiring!!

The only point I'm not sure about is being type rated. I'm not entirely convinced you don't need an ATP to be type-rated in a jet. If anyone knows otherwise then I'll stand corrected. If this is the case then are the instructors going to need ATP mins before moving on??

Time builder, Alan K was a great guy, always made me laugh and it was a pity he moved on.

If I find out anymore I'll let you all know.

 

[Chunk]

thanks...

Thanks to everyone for the good info provided...

Keep it coming if you find anything else out!

Cheers,

Chunk

 

[flybub]

Hey all, I'm also a student at FSI and I too appreciate all your help with straightening out info from anything you have heard on the line. At this point I would be satisfied flying anything for a career, but EJA has been a goal for me since I started flying in '99. I am just curious as to how they select your domiciles. Is it your preference or do they put where they need you? Also how is the flying life there? I have friends flying for regionals around the country and they said it is very slow. Are things at EJA slow or do they remain the same? Finally one more question, is EJA expecting any growth in the next couple of years? I have heard they have jets on order but when do they expect to start recieving those? Thank you all again for your help and your time. Take care and fly safe.

 

[Diesel]

We choose our gateways by choice not senority. We are getting about 1 plane every 4-7 days. We're hiring about 750 pilots this year.

This isn't a commuter, anybody can shoot an ils. Try going into ASE or even departing from it, it's pretty scary. Things like second segment have a whole new meaning.

Our owners don't want 1500 hour pilots or less flying the planes. They want high time pilots with experience. Not trying to bait you guys but just pointing out the facts.

My advice go out build time scare yourself a bunch working for someone else. When you have 2500 you'll be ready to come here. For now go to CJ Cannon's and watch the planes on a beuitful sunday morning. Remember the econonmy will rebound.

Diesel

 

[Kenny]

Diesel,

If you read my post above, you'll see that I'm as amazed as you. However, all the FSI instructors were told yesterday that all that's needed is an OK from the top man at EJA and everything will start happening.

The chief pilot told us that as it stands, EJA will be taking instructors who've completed 800 hours as an instructor, even if they have less than ATP mins. Students will be able to sign up for the training with 300 hours as long as they have CFI,CFII and MEI. Oh and $11,000!

I think you might be eating those patronising and condescending words a bit quicker than you might have realised!

 

[Diesel]

Well Kenny I'm not going to get into a name calling event. I can tell you that I'm as shocked that it has moved this quickly.

You might think that instructing in the seminole has prepared you for this job but it hasn't. There is a lot more than just sitting in the seat. Passenger safety is number one. Our day changes many times throught the day, being able to be flexible, work as a team, and getting your job done is a major part of this company working.

Comon over though and get bounced from training, it's hard stuff.

Just keep drinking the koolaide, it dulls the senses

 

[EJA Capt]

OK guys, here's the deal....Both sides will have to wait and see. But, I wouldn't start packing for CMH yet.

These rumors were addressed in a company recurrent class two weeks ago. The word from EJA's Chief Pilot is that the FSI thing is on a very far back burner. Period. I think we also need a clarification that we are talking about EJA, and not meaning EJM. I could see it happening to EJM. To put pilots with less than 2500 hrs, an ATP, and a type rating in one of EJA's airplanes would take the approval of ALL 2000+ owners in the NetJets program.



Flybub,
I’m glad to hear EJA has been your goal. I was in your shoes when EJA got the fractional deal started. Now I’m going on 4 years with them and having a ball. Here are the answer to your questions.

Domiciles, or Gateways as well refer to them, are chosen by you after you finish indoc training. They cannot be assigned, and are not dependent on position or aircraft.

The flying is great most of the time. Never a dull moment. Things have even gotten busier since 9/11/2001. With respect to your regional friends, I would never trade this life for a regional career. There is just no comparison. Different type of flying, different type of perks.

EJA started receiving the aircraft orders 16 years ago. Give or take a few planes, we have about 250 on the EJA side of the company, another 40 with EJI and 80 with EJM. Orders through the next five years are totaling 900+ aircraft. We average a new plane every 5-6 days. Usually including, 1 DA2000, 1 Cit X, and 1-2 XLs per month. Encores and Galaxies begin in Feb ’02 and June ’02. 2004 will see deliveries of Sovereigns, Horizons, and DA2000EXs. We have a long way to go.

Good luck,
EJA Capt

 

[Diesel]

Flybub

I sent you a private message but it got kicked back to me. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** computer

Now that EJACAPT got me in the right direction i just wanted to point out to you what I love about this job.

Our day changed destinations 5 times yesterday

Started off as PBI to santa anna CA

then PBI to jackson hole WY

then PBI to idaho, jackson hole had a blizard

then pax cancelled and will fly the next day

then PBI to CRG to APF to PBI

Pretty cool stuff though

 

[Zarathustra]

FSI = Berkshire Hathaway
EJA = Berkshire Hathaway

Odds of Berkshire Hathaway starting an indoc program at FSI Academy to create profits with the promise of moving low time pilots to EJA where they can do type ratings at FSI training centers all over the country owned by Berkshire Hathaway?

You do the math. (Hint: Identity property.)

 

[Chunk]

I love...

Warren Buffet has been a hero of mine for a long time...the fact that he owns the finest flight training organization AND the finest fractional corporation is by no means an accident!

Any guy that names his Gulfstream, "The Indefensible".....


Cheers,

Chunk

 

[EJA Capt]

Dude, Berkshire also owns Dairy Queen, but we don't serve it on the airplane. We also are not issued footwear from Berkshire owned Dexter or HH Brown.

As far as making money for a sister company...That's like stealing money from yourself. The idea is to make money from OUTSIDE the company, not swap money from one branch to the other. EJA is going to use the same number of sim slots around the country, regardless of where the pilots come from. As far as "doing the math," which do you think is more profitable to type, a low time person that they will spend more time (spelled m-o-n-e-y) with in training or a high time person that will require less (pardon the term) hand holding, which they can type quicker and ship out the door?

PS...

COLUMBUS, OH March 15, 2001 -- Executive Jet, Inc., the world leader in private and business jet aviation, today announced that it has entered into a significant educational partnership with The Ohio State University in several areas of mutual interest, including increasing the number of aeronautics graduates, research and product development.
Under terms of the broad partnership, Executive Jet and Ohio State‚s College of Engineering will explore creating an accelerated fight training program to serve Ohio State aviation students, Executive Jet scholarship recipients, and experienced industry pilots seeking advanced pilot training.

 

[flybub]

Thank you all very much for your information. It is very appreciated and hopefully one day I can join the crew at EJA, but for now I'll post if anything with the program changes here at FSI. Thanks again. Take Care

 

[bizjet737]

the OSU deal fell through. by june they were looking at UND in fargo. i heard that one fell through, too. eja supposedly was being too demanding. imagine that!

 

[stingray]

agree with EJAcapt and Diesel, you need to get real time outside of the controlled & sheltered world of a flight school then start to think about it.
FRUIT OF THE LOOM another new member of the Berkshire famliy I think i have a pair or two!

 

[charley varrick]

All,

In an attempt to make this thread three pages long, I have another question about lifestyle at EJA.

As far as the schedules go, it looks like basically, you are on 7/7 or a more typical 3, 4, 5 or 6 on, then any number of days off, for a total of 17 days of duty. So, is there any way, without vacation, to every get more than 13 or 14 days off a month?

Second, do you get per diem once on the line, or is it all considered "company paid" via reimbursement of your credit card. If it is the latter, does this work out like clockwork or is there tedium involved?

Lastly, when you start a run of duty days, do you always get assigned on day one? I imagine not, but have there ever, historically, been lulls in the middle of a trip?

Thanks so much for your replies in advance. I really am starting to salivate over this company.

As for the hiring of low-time pilots scenario: that, if I were at a company where upgrades were happening at such a rapid pace, would greatly concern me. It is one thing if you know a pilot was going to sit in the right seat for at least two years, but another to think they might be forced in to situations for which they really don't have the flight experience to make judiciuos decisions. Perhaps there would be a built-in "no upgrade until . . ." clause built in, but, then I don't see how that would benefit a company with such explosive growth in its future. But, logic usually never prevails.

charley varrick

 

[sweptwingz]

O.K., I'll give it a try....

All,

In an attempt to make this thread three pages long, I have another question about lifestyle at EJA.


As far as the schedules go, it looks like basically, you are on 7/7 or a more typical 3, 4, 5 or 6 on, then any number of days off, for a total of 17 days of duty. So, is there any way, without vacation, to every get more than 13 or 14 days off a month?

<Bid a "low work load aircraft" like the VII, Falcon, or BBJ.
You will spend some tours at home in the bullpen.
Also, stay away from CMH or major eastern city gateway bases.
West Coasties work much less. The X and the Ultra are
the hardest workers here. The Excel is picking up, too.>

Second, do you get per diem once on the line, or is it all considered "company paid" via reimbursement of your credit card. If it is the latter, does this work out like clockwork or is there tedium involved?


< You make 38.40 per day while on the road. While flying the
company buys your food (usually) so it's yours to keep.
You are reimbursed each pay day. Expense reports take about
2 weeks to clear. Some people have had problems, but in
four years I never had. Just be logical and clear on your
expense report and mail it in the day your tour ends.>


Lastly, when you start a run of duty days, do you always get assigned on day one? I imagine not, but have there ever, historically, been lulls in the middle of a trip?


< Usually, once out, you stay out. If you have a lull, you're waiting
in a hotel on per diem, or at the FBO. CMH crews sometimes
return mid-tour to swap a/c, but it's rare.>

Thanks so much for your replies in advance. I really am starting to salivate over this company.

As for the hiring of low-time pilots scenario: that, if I were at a company where upgrades were happening at such a rapid pace, would greatly concern me. It is one thing if you know a pilot was going to sit in the right seat for at least two years, but another to think they might be forced in to situations for which they really don't have the flight experience to make judiciuos decisions. Perhaps there would be a built-in "no upgrade until . . ." clause built in, but, then I don't see how that would benefit a company with such explosive growth in its future. But, logic usually never prevails.

charley varrick

 

[Diesel]

Just heard down the pipeline.

EJA has so many pilots in the pool for new hires that the EJA/FSI deal is put so far on the back burner it's cold.

oh well

 

[sparticusflt]

I've been at EJA for about 2 years now and have heard rumors of this. However, the pilot group is not to thrilled about it. One of the biggest selling points to clients is the 2500 hour requirement and ATP rated plus type rating in aircraft for both crewmembers. Course the temporary influx of pilots in the pool is only temporary till the airlines start recalling so perhaps in a couple of years down the road a ab intio program might happen. Right now there are so many resumes at EJA that there isn't a real need

Ok before you guys jump on my coolaid read before you react. I have nothing against low time pilots, like every pilot out there I was one of them. As a captain I don't particularly like the idea of having a 500 hour pilot riding in the right seat. I think the commuters are better outfitted for this sort of program then EJA. Plus how many low time pilots want to wait 3 to 4 years to upgrade? Good luck