EJ Fleet

[BBJPILOT]

Facts vs Rumor


Richard Santulli and Ted Forestman founded the "Gulfstream Shares" program as a joint marketing effort to sell MORE Gee whiz. At the time EJA had orders with multiple manufacturers and Gulfstream,
as later did Boeing, wanted a piece of the fractional pie.

Now, as for the Union issue. We were told, repeatedly, by both Richard Santulli, his boy Orlinski, and Smith, that Ted Forestman hated Unions and would not "do the deal" if EJA was going to operate them. Gulfstream was notorious for this attitude.

Now that being said, there may be truth to it or not. If not, then you see the moral standard by which to judge.

But, in the end, the EJI operation was left to it's operation as a DIRECT result of the last EJA contract (viewable at www.ejapilots.com) where the pilots of EJA released the Gulfstream Operation as long as the Company would agree to a scope clause that required all future aircraft to be flown by EJA (Union) pilots, scope clause, section 1.

The Boeing and a host of other future fractional aircraft were protected work under the new scope, and for a good faith agreement, the IBT would not simply seek to bring in EJI under a "Single Carrier Representation Dispute" with the NMB ala American Eagle. Such an option is still very much possible should management try to "get around" the intent and promises contained within the contract. So far they have not.

But make no mistake, four senior management types (Santulli, Orlinski, Jacobs, and Smith)for over several years "blamed" the non-union thing on Forestman. We however, didn't really believe it, and preserved our single carrier option as the ace in the hole!

 

[GVFlyer]

I assume you're talking about former Chairman Teddy Forstmann who with Forstmann-Little held 22% of Gulfstream stock prior to it's merger with General Dynamics in July, 1999. Forstmann oversaw and approved the deal brokered by Bill Boisture, current Gulfstream CEO and GD VP for Aviation, and Raynor Reavis, current NetJets VP for sales( then a G'stream VP) with Richard Santulli. David Orlinski's role, as NetJets Chief Counsel, would have been that of a lawyer.

It's time for a reality check. Businesses exist to make money, they are not philanthropic organizations, they're not there to offer full employment or to achieve philosophical ends. Gulfstream is in the business of building and selling aircraft. At Gulfstream, like any other business, there is no room for emotionalism or sentiment , they simply want to sell as many airplanes as they can manufacture and it doesn't matter to whom.

Gulfstream was not in a position to control anything that Executive Jet did. The original 1995 deal was for EJI to purchase 12 G-IV's with options for additional aircraft. The current total of orders and deliveries is 68 jets. When Executive Jet purchased the Boeings, they broke their contract with Gulfstream that specified that Executive Jet would not enter into a sales agreement with a large body Gulfstream competitor. But what was Gulfstream to do? How to you spank your largest customer? Do you tell them that you're not going to sell them anymore airplanes? Not hardly. In the end they did nothing.

 

[Muddauber]

So EJI cant be successful being UNION?? Would you support one list and if not why? Id like to hear comments from EJA and EJI pilots on this. I cast my vote for one list and ONE company.

Listen up, moron. He said if it ain't broke don't fix it. He doesn't work for EJI so he can't support one list or 20. He just said that the guys at EJI were a bunch of happy campers. The pilots at EJI could have joined a union company if they wanted, but they didn't. Why screw with them? I think you EJA guys are just jealous.

 

[Jake]

EJI question

This stuff is all really good. I am certainly becoming very educated on the history of the EJA/EJI relationship. But, as tends to happen with this new flightinfo.com format, we have digressed a bit from some of the questions/answers that people really want to know.

I am probably just a little ignorant when it comes to non-military operations but why do two organizations who belong to the same parent company, fly the same customers in the same market have a difference of over $35,000 in starting pay? I realize Gulfstream aircraft are larger than and have a longer range than most of the EJA aircraft but am I the only one who doesn't understand this pay disparity.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Mach92]

No comment........thats your freebie

 

[Diesel]

This is what I've allways heard the reason why EJA and EJI is differetnt.

When EJA pilots were told that they were going to get gulfstreams on the property the union told RTS that union only pilots would be flying Gulfstreams such as EJA. Well the insurance wanted pilots with GUlfstream experience flying gulfstreams till EJA pilots got more experience. Much like they are doing with BBJ with outside pilots who have been hired and are union brothers.

The eja union wouldn't budge and RTS just said fine we'll make a new company and thus EJI.

So is this version any better?

 

[niteflyr]

Mee too Diesel,

That is how I heard it explained too Diesel. I was told it was due to the inexperience in Gulfstream or comparable aircraft of the EJA pilots that made gulfstream require making EJI. The EJA union would not allow hiring new Captains into the Gulfstream so they had to do it another way. Now, when the BBJ showed up the union was willing to bend a little and let them hire captains into the airplane.

That is just how I heard it explained, could be wrong. Sorry to not join into the name calling and flame baiting. I am content with my job and it sounds like EJI pilots are content to. To each his own!

 

[BBJPILOT]

I stand by my post above. Business or non business, this is what was told to us at EJA. We also were fully aware of the BBJ/Gulfstream Non-Compete clause, oh-well, business is business.
The statements made by the management regarding Forstmann, and don't care about 1999, we are talking 1995 and 1998 when the last contract was negotiated, this was their story.

As far as the Gulfstream Experience, it goes back much longer than 1995. In 1990, Mr. S made several public statements to pilots during meetings at Columbus, that if we just "hung in there", took the little pay raises during the 1990, 91 pre EJI era, when the Company was going broke and pilots were furloughed (yes we have had furloughs and yes I have seen the "puffed" quotes lately) that we "would soon be flying Gulfstreams". Again several dozen current pilots were at these meetings. There was never, ever, any approach by the Company to the Union regarding experience, contract training pilots, etc. Rather, without comment or warning, we read the same articles everyone else did about the formation of Gulfstream Shares and EJI. The broken promise is where both the discontent, and the 1998 scope language was addressed.

Reality is simple, in the beginning of the gulfstream operation, Santulli and Forstmann cooked up their plan, didn't want schedules and duty limits to be part of the equation. Original EJI guys were just given "goals" when it came to a schedule or duty limits. It has improved much since then, but to get the program going, all such pesky requirements were simply, in theory, un-workable. Another key was the Companies initial and continuing desire to let fractional owners pick their own pilots to fly fractionally owned aircraft, and in some cases to even mix the crews, to be able to hire "displaced" corporate pilots directly to Captain when certain flight departments were closed be EJ Inc. There is a lot more to the whole story, but the answer above addresses a single thing. Did RTS and boys tell the pilots at EJA and the Union that we could not have them because of "Gulfstreams"(specifically Forstmann) reluctance to use Union pilots. Answer, most definately, a dozen times, to me and others personally. As I said, was it true, probably not, who knows, who cares, but in the end the deception and broken promises provided a fairly tight scope clause, and the outcome had we not been given the scope, was well known by the same managers, every one of them.

 

[Diesel]

BBJPILOT-

That was the best explanation I heard.

My explanation came from TC during his 8 hour Koolaide drinking session in which he tells the same stories from indoc to recurrent.

Now I know why he leaves that story out in recurrent because everybody would jump down his throat.

Hmmmmmm