Duane Woerth rumor... YGTBSM!!

[Sig]

I Kant stand this anymore...so don't get me Sarte'd!

As a kid, I played:

1. with Play-Doh!
2. Heidegger Seek!
3. with action figures from "The Empiricists Strike Back"!


I'd also Reid a lot, wore sports jerseys (soccer tees, mostly- the sophist ones I could find), and basically told the world, "Foucault you clowns." It's fun to Russell up some puns now and again- Dewey keep this up or not?

 

[Richard Gozinya]

DW will wind up being a paid lobbyist for the ATA. Not the airline, but the Airtransport Association. He'll use his "skills" to lobby against pilot workrules, quality of life improvements etc. He'll convince Congress and the public that pilots are just over-paid and underworked whiners who "should just be glad they can have a job they 'love' "

I thought that is what he did when he was the HMFIC @ ALPA!

OK, easy ones just can't be bypassed. Couldn't resist.

Dick

 

[PCL_128]

I thought all EVP's were part time (very part time) and flew the line with occasional flight pay loss for Executive Council meetings and other pertinent events?

Depends. Many of them are also MEC Chairmen that are already on full-time buy for that. They are usually involved in other projects for National also, so they get FPL for times other than EC meetings.

Also it is my understanding that John Prater is one of the first or at least the first ALPA's President in recent history to stay current and continue to fly, albeit very little but does still fly. It is my understanding from a reliable source John Prater had demanded he would do such despite resistance from top ALPA staffers.

Captain Prater has insisted on staying current in the sim, but I don't believe he's flown the line since taking office. I remember being at some event back in January that he had to miss because he had a sim ride to stay current. Personally, I don't see the point, but it's important to him.

 

[Huck]

You don't reckon he's planning on flying to 65, do you?

 

[Occam's Razor]

(soccer tees, mostly- the sophist ones I could find)

Ok...that one's a Locke!

We should knock this off, Or well drive everybody away!

 

[CAL EWR B737]

None of the group "A" (Legacy's) carriers have EVP's that are also MEC Chairman. I was told by our EVP (a friend) that Prater was going to fly the line and not just the sim. I'll check for myself and call Prater.

I believe you are wrong, it is important for our President to keep his roots and not lose sight of who he represents. Flying the line even if it is one trip a or one trip a quarter and the rest in the sim for currency at least reminds him who he represents and where he comes from so he never to lose sight that he represents blue collar airline pilots. He's merely representing his peers and he isn't above them, he is one of them! Duane Woerth hasn't flown an airplane in so long he lost sight many years ago of his roots and his constituents.

 

[PCL_128]

I believe you are wrong, it is important for our President to keep his roots and lose sight of who he represents. Flying the line even if it is one trip a or one trip a quarter and the rest in the sim for currency at least reminds him who he represents and where he comes from and never lose sight that he represents blue collar airline pilots. Duane Woerth hasn't flown an airplane in so lone he lost sight many years ago of his roots and his constituents.

I see your point, but the issue just comes down to a matter of time. The President is just so busy (7 days a week, usually) that there isn't any time to go fly airplanes. I'd rather he be on Capital Hill fighting for bankruptcy reform than flying a trip. Of course, I also disagree that Duane lost sight of his roots and his constituents, so this is just a matter of philosophy.

 

[Turtle21]

...funny though watching him lobby the Mesa guys in their hospitality suite. I knew when I saw him in with the regionals he was in trouble...

If he didn't sign his own death warrant with the elimination of the pensions, then pilots deserve to have all their jobs replaced by cabbotage (rumored to be his next project).

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Of course, I also disagree that Duane lost sight of his roots and his constituents, so this is just a matter of philosophy.

You are definitely in the minority! On one of Duane's last days as President he showed up for a picketing event for the Comair pilots. He actually told some of the pilots he had a hard time dealing with living in his two houses, one in Florida and one in DCA. He was talking to these pilots who were very uncertain of their future many of them living on food stamp wages as they were preparing to strike. Most of these pilots couldn't afford to live in one house let alone two.

He has totally lost touch. He spent eight years as President, eight years as First Vice President and god knows how many other years on full time flight pay loss. This story was told to me by a fellow CAL pilot who along with his wife a NWA pilot traveled to CVG for the event. They were both totally dumbfounded with Woerth.

This is a big reason why Prater needs to fly the line and see first hand the POS contract we fly under every day.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Another story told to me by this pilot. He and his wife traveled to DC either a year ago or two years ago for a march on DC. The march wasn't well publicized almost like ALPA National didn't want anyone to show up.

When this pilot and his wife got off the bus that traveled from Herndon to DCA, Woerth was standing by the bus door shaking everyones hands. He was wearing blue corduroy paints and a NWA hat. He was very surprised almost shocked to see this pilots wife (NWA pilot).

 

[PCL_128]

You are definitely in the minority! On one of Duane's last days as President he showed up for a picketing event for the Comair pilots. He actually told some of the pilots he had a hard time dealing with living in his two houses, one in Florida and one in DCA. He was talking to these pilots who were very uncertain of their future many of them living on food stamp wages as they were preparing to strike. Most of these pilots couldn't afford to live in one house let alone two.

He has totally lost touch. He spent eight years as President, eight years as First Vice President and god knows how many other years on full time flight pay loss. This story was told to me by a fellow CAL pilot who along with his wife a NWA pilot traveled to CVG for the event. They were both totally dumbfounded with Woerth.

I was at that CMR event, and although I didn't personally hear that from Duane, I don't really doubt it either. I'm sure it is tough not being able to get home to Florida for months at a time, but I agree that that wasn't the best time to talk about it. To me, what matters is what a person does. I've never seen Captain Woerth take an action on Capital hill or when dealing with management that would lead me to believe that he's lost touch with the membership. I do disagree with several of the TAs he signed, but I also see his point of view on that subject. Was Duane perfect? Certainly not, and neither is Captain Prater. But I still don't believe that Duane took any official actions that demonstrated a disconnect with his members.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I've never seen Captain Woerth take an action on Capital hill or when dealing with management that would lead me to believe that he's lost touch with the membership.

uke:

All politicians have their agenda. Unlike you, I took off my ALPA cheerleader outfit a long time ago

 

[~~~^~~~]

PCL - Come on, you can not be serious. Woerth was a disaster for our union. It was under his leadership that ALPA decided that its' Constitution and Bylaws only applies to certain preferred members of ALPA. Woerth signed every deal that enabled management to put ALPA member's flying out to bid under requests for proposal. Woerth fought alter ego by sending out a short lived magazine to the effected "express" pilots and forming bilateral scope impact committees that never reported any impact.

Woerth did more to harm this profession than Frank Lorenzo and I do not use Lorenzo's name lightly. IMHO Woerth is a Psychopath by any definition - here is Wikipedia's:

Psychopathy is currently defined in psychiatry and clinical psychology as a condition characterized by lack of empathy [1] [2] or conscience, and poor impulse control [3] [4] or manipulative behaviors.[5]

 

[Occam's Razor]

PCL - Come on, you can not be serious. Woerth was a disaster for our union. It was under his leadership that ALPA decided that its' Constitution and Bylaws only applies to certain preferred members of ALPA.

It was right about here that my Whiney Doosh Detector 9000 kicked it.

The rest of your post musta been a real Level 3 Yeast Infection, cuz the meter went to 11!

Best $20 I ever spent!

Rave on, brother! Just cuz your intellectual star ship has lost it's warp drive doesn't mean you can't chug back to reality on impulse power. (Feel free to use that at the next Start Trek convention you organize)

 

[737 Pylt]

It was right about here that my Whiney Doosh Detector 9000 kicked it.

The rest of your post musta been a real Level 3 Yeast Infection, cuz the meter went to 11!

Best $20 I ever spent!

Rave on, brother! Just cuz your intellectual star ship has lost it's warp drive doesn't mean you can't chug back to reality on impulse power. (Feel free to use that at the next Start Trek convention you organize)

Consider the fact that "~~~^~~~" is none other than a rjdc cheerleader....Sending money and suppport to doosh bags like Dan, Jessee, John and the rest of the girls over there!

737

 

[PCL_128]

Occam, with this forum do you really need that fancy Whiney Doosh Detector 9000? I mean, isn't it always pegged anyway?

PCL - Come on, you can not be serious. Woerth was a disaster for our union. It was under his leadership that ALPA decided that its' Constitution and Bylaws only applies to certain preferred members of ALPA.

BS. Captain Woerth was one of the greatest advocates of regional MECs. Except for his age-60 opinion, I actually like Prater a lot, but he's certainly not as close to the regional MECs as Woerth was. Just because your PID request didn't go the way you wanted it to doesn't mean that Duane was out to get you.

Woerth signed every deal that enabled management to put ALPA member's flying out to bid under requests for proposal.

Every deal that he signed was approved by the respective MECs and pilot groups. Again, I wouldn't have signed a lot of those TAs, but I respect Captain Woerth's position that he won't tell a pilot group that they can't have the contract that they want.

Woerth fought alter ego by sending out a short lived magazine to the effected "express" pilots and forming bilateral scope impact committees that never reported any impact.

The BSIC's work was interrupted by the worst period for airline labor in history. Even the national Collective Bargaining Committee wasn't able to meet during this time because all of the members were focused on bankruptcy and 1113 filings. When management, the courts, and executive branch are all out to get you at the same time, you just have to prioritize. The BSIC's work had to take a backseat for a little while. I don't know about DCI/DAL, but the Red Tail carriers are starting up the Joint Standing Committee again. Now we have time to discuss these issues, and possibly even make some progress. Looking back at a "magazine" that you didn't like and complaining will get us nowhere. Start focusing on what we can do now to address the problems. (Hint: a silly little lawsuit probably isn't the way to build bridges with mainline MECs)

Woerth did more to harm this profession than Frank Lorenzo and I do not use Lorenzo's name lightly. IMHO Woerth is a Psychopath by any definition

This is just too ridiculous to even respond to. I expect more from you, Fins.

 

[whymeworry?]

Come on guys. Nobody on here should defend DW. He was the worst president ALPA has ever had. A true LEADER is one who can rise to the battle. The ultimate battle of a post 9/11 airline industry was DW's opportunity to shine and he squandered that career defining moment time and again for 5 years. I'm just glad he's gone.

Met a NW pilot at the bar while on a layover last night. I brought up this rumor of DW lobbying for NW. His response, "I wouldn't be surprised at all." My response, "Why would he cross his own guys?" (meaning the pilotsof NW). He replied that they never were his guys that he was completely clueless and out of touch with the pilots of NW.

 

[Deuce130]

After four pages, can we determine whether or not DW is working for management? If so, then the previous four pages are moot. If not, then the previous four pages are moot. Personally, if he's working for management, then we've got to start a new thread....

 

[Freight Dog]

Duane was mostly a whole bunch of hot air combined with some political connections. He also didn't really relate too well to his constituents. I met him during AQ/HAL merger attempt in 2001, and I really didn't think much of him.

While he might have been a great politician, I agree with the rest of the crowd that he indeed lost touch with reality, and part of that was his total compensation package. During the worst downturn in the U.S. airline industry, he hasn't felt the pain of your average ALPA pilot, but he sure talked about it. Everyone can talk the talk...

 

[N2264J]

Re: Duane Woerth rumor...YGTBSM!

Captain Woerth was one of the greatest advocates of regional MECs...Every deal that he signed was approved by the respective MECs and pilot groups.

CC Air comes to mind. He refused to sign the contract after it was ratified by the membership. Said it was harmful to the profession and CC Air went under.

Months later, he signed an agreement for Mid Atlantic with rates that undercut the regionals.