Dual Engine Failure--Yeow!

[homebrew]

Hey TurboS7,

My best bud was the F/O on that flight, and your moron theory isn't anywhere near what happened. It sickens me that you are willing to scream pilot error, with your apparent lack of knowledge in this incident. Fact is they both did an incredible job of staying calm and safely landing the airplane in Wichita. There were heroics performed by those pilots that flight, not errors. Out of respect for my friend, I told him I would not indulge to anyone the specifics of the flight until the investigation is over, but I can assure you they did a great job in a situation most every pilot could classify as their worst nightmare.

 

[Ted Striker]

Oh come on!!

Wow TurboS7... pretty brazen. Do you work for FoxNews or CNN? They are also amazing people, they like to pretend to know. Even when they know sh!t about nothing.

 

[Dieterly]

What do you expect? He flies for an Airline, owned by a scab. Wait a second, isn't he also a scab?

 

[Swass]

You're a dingus. I was flying that plane and I say it was my fault. I like to do deadstick landings every now and then.

 

[Swass]

Man this is one old thread that I inadvertantly awakened. I remember this on the news, I saw the aircraft at ICT. I was wondering if anything ever came of it and just what the heroics were (that were mentioned in the thread)?

 

[flywithastick]

Landing an MD 80(2) deadstick. Those guys *are* sierra hotel in my book, even if they may well have fouled up.

know of a guy who landed a T-38 dead stick. I've never been there, but AFAIK it has no alternate hydraulic power source. Supposedly he dove it keeping the engine windmilling supplying hydraulic power (from the engine) and got it down safely. Another guy I know tells how he once lost both on a Merlin in a storm, at night over moutains many years ago. Got them both relit. Good stories to swap over a beer at the hanger.

 

[LXApilot]

Dead Stick? Not the first time!

The odds of a double engine flame-out in cruise flight are low, but its happened plenty of times that I can think of. Most of these cases are pretty publicized, but the news media dosent like to pay attention to the ones that would make a professional pilot actually look like he was an asset in the cockpit during such an emergency. I can think of a 767 flying for a major airline that is affectionately known as the 'Maui Glider' and it has had 3 double engine flame-outs in its flying history with the company. Kinda scary when you think about it. Best advice I ever had was this; "the fuel panel will get you in more trouble, faster than anything else in the cockpit... so don't touch it unless you HAVE to." And this is true, most engine flame-outs are attributed to fuel system errors or pilot error in manipulating that system.

 

[enigma]

Since someone brought up this almost dead thread, I'll add a little for those wondering. The crew did relight both engines, they didn't land dead stick. The incident was turned over to the ASAP program and all info is confidential because of the rules of the program. That's all we know. It could have been anything. I can't speculate. I'm just glad that it wasn't me.

regards,
enigma

 

[Swass]

That's what I thought, how long before they re-lit, does anybody know?

 

[miaboeingcapt]

From what I've heard, the Capt. and FO of this flight no longer work for Spirit. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Typhoon1244]

I recently spoke with a 10,000-hour DC-9/MD-80 guy about this incident. Apparently there are only a couple of things that could cause a double engine failure at cruise in good weather in an MD-80: not turning the center tank pumps on after takeoff, or a failure of some sort in the fuel system.

The center tank issue has come up before lots of times, but people usually catch it before they run the wing tanks dry. As for a failure of the fuel system, wouldn't that have prevented them from relighting the engines?

I'll be interested to see what the outcome is.

(By the way, for all you CRJ pilots out there, a little trivia: the MD-80's APU cannot be bled to the packs--or anything else--in flight. It's an airplane limitation...and besides, when you try to do it, the APU shuts down. Glad we don't have that limitation!)

 

[enigma]

I recently spoke with a 10,000-hour DC-9/MD-80 guy about this incident. Apparently there are only a couple of things that could cause a double engine failure at cruise in good weather in an MD-80: not turning the center tank pumps on after takeoff, or a failure of some sort in the fuel system.

The center tank issue has come up before lots of times, but people usually catch it before they run the wing tanks dry. As for a failure of the fuel system, wouldn't that have prevented them from relighting the engines?

I'll be interested to see what the outcome is.

(By the way, for all you CRJ pilots out there, a little trivia: the MD-80's APU cannot be bled to the packs--or anything else--in flight. It's an airplane limitation...and besides, when you try to do it, the APU shuts down. Glad we don't have that limitation!)

I don't have time to do further research in the NTSB journals, even if I did, I would be well advised to keep my mouth shut. I will say that there are more than two ways to lose both engines, and that's assuming that both engines were lost. I really don't know. Like I said earlier, the pilots told their story to the ASAP team and it's all confidential. The report that the ASAP team published didn't even tell the whole story. I hope that someone hear can do the research of public information, find an answer, then post their findings. I'd like to know the truth. I only know speculation, and I'm not about to repeat any of it. I know that some in Hollywood say that any publicity is good publicity, but I'm not sure that applies to Spirit.

regards,
enigma

BTW, If memory serves, ASAP stands for Aviation Safety Action Program, and it's basically a NASA program run jointly by the company and the POI. It has good points and bad points, but that probably warrants another string.

 

[Dieterly]

So I guess the answer is that they no longer work for Spirit?

BTW Didn't Spirit also manage to stall one (airplane) in cruise, a few years back?

 

[Typhoon1244]

Didn't Spirit also manage to stall one (airplane) in cruise, a few years back?

I wasn't going to mention it, but yeah. An MD-80 way up in the flight levels. Not sure if it was a high- or low-speed stall. The kicker is that after they fell out of the sky and recovered, they climbed right back up where they'd been and stalled again.

Now I'm not the brightest jet-jockey in the world, but I think after the first stall I'd have gotten the message.

Note: I don't want to come down too hard on Spirit. There are dopey mistakes made at all airlines. I believe my company holds the record for wrong airport landings in the Columbus, Mississippi area. (They all look alike! Thank heaven for GPS...)

 

[ExAF]

Deadstik a 38?

I know of a guy who landed a T-38 dead stick. I've never been there, but AFAIK it has no alternate hydraulic power source. Supposedly he dove it keeping the engine windmilling supplying hydraulic power (from the engine) and got it down safely.

I think your friend was telling you a "good one!" I'm not absolutely 100% sure, but to the best of my knowledge nobody has ever deadsticked a T-38. The aircraft would become uncontrollable in the flare. Chances of survival are much higher in an ejection.