• NC Software is having a Black Friday Sale Event thru December 4th on Logbook Pro, APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook, Cirrus Elite Binders, and more. Use coupon code BF2020 at checkout to redeem 15% off your purchase. Click here to shop now.
  • NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.

Dual Engine Failure--Yeow!

Eagleflip

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
794
Total Time
5000+
I gleaned this from the NTSB website, address noted below. Sorry if this is a duplicate, but I haven't seen it addressed on the board.

Any clues as to what happened?

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020612X00866&key=1

NTSB Identification: CHI02IA151
Scheduled 14 CFRPart 121 operation of Air Carrier SPIRIT AIRLINES INC.
Accident occurred Tuesday, June 04, 2002 at Wichita, KS
Aircraft:McDonnell Douglas MD-82, registration: N823NK
Injuries: 111 Uninjured.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

On June 4, 2002, at 1238 central daylight time, a McDonnell Douglas MD-82, N823NK, operated as Spirit Airlines Flight 970, experienced a loss of power from both engines while in cruise flight at flight level 330. The power loss occurred about 20 nautical miles west of Wichita, Kansas. Power from both engines was restored and the airplane diverted to the Wichita Mid-Continent Airport, Wichita, Kansas, without further incident. The 14 CFR Part 121 scheduled passenger flight was operating on an instrument flight rules flight plan. No injuries to the 105 passengers or 6 crewmembers, were reported. The flight originated from the Denver International Airport, Denver, Colorado at 1140 and was en route to the Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood International Airport, Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.


I wonder if there is an ATR code for soiled shorts?
 

avbug

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
7,602
Total Time
n/a
I worked for a company that flew several types of large four engine airplanes. I was called to take over a crew position in an aircraft following loss of the crew. I didn't get any details, but learned on arrival that the crew was missing. Sure enough, when I got to the aircraft it had been cleaned out. This particular type of operation required the crew to be with the aircraft for extended periods, and all their things were gone. Nothing but dust.

I pieced together what had happened to them over the next few days. They had departed under IFR, and were between ten and twelve thousand feet when they experienced a rough engine on #3. They performed a precautionary shutdown and cage. Shortly thereafter, they developed fuel fluctualtions on #1, #2, and #4. Upon applying backup boost pressure, those engines quit, leaving them to begin an all-engine-out descent in IMC.

After 60 seconds without power, they restored power on one, two, and four, and continued to a safe landing. Within a day, both crewmembers had left and that was that. There was more involved, of course, and I don't think the captain would have quit over just that...it wasn't too big a deal. However, it came on the heels of the burning death of two close friends in a large airplane crash only a couple of weeks before, the birth of a new child, and during a fresh marriage...with heavy pressure from the wife to get out.

Sometimes there's a lot of wisdom in knowing just when to call it quits.

It's times like these, however, when things begin to go wrong and blood pressure rises just a little, that we're reminded of why we got into flying to begin with. With a little tension comes a welcome challenge and a change, and what was for a brief period routine, becomes fun again. It's all just a learning experience.
 

328dude

Still turning two
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
1,647
Total Time
??????
Probebly a elementary question, but does the MD-82 have a RAT for this very thing? Im know genous and no nothing about the MD-80 family, but if you don't have a RAT, then what altitude do you need to desend to so you can fire off the APU to help with the loss of power issue. I dought it would fire at FL330.


Be gentle, as I said I know nothing about the Mad Dog.
 

Icebergclub

Happy to have a Job.....
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Posts
61
Total Time
15000+
PA-31 dual engine failure

Any PA-31-350 pilots out there should read this.........

Go to www.atsb.gov.au
and search for a/c VH-MZK, it had a dual engine failure on May 31, 2000. A very good report with pictures and a MUST read for anybody flying Navajo's..............
 

Timebuilder

Entrepreneur
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
4,625
Total Time
1634
Thanks for the link.

Who would have thought that proper leaning and antiseize compound would be associated with an engine failure? Is the copper based stuff still called "C5-A"?

I only know of one double engine failure that happened in the US on a Navajo. It was caused by a guy who violated his company's policy to remain with the plane during refueling. When he returned to the plane (after not looking closely at his fuel bill to see what he was paying for...) he took off with a load of Jet-A. He and the plane safely returned to the airport. About two months later, I had the pleasure of flying the same plane.

-With two brand spankin' new engines.
 

DC9stick

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
147
Total Time
13000
The MD-80 series does not have a Ram Air Turbine to provide emergency electrical power. The emergency power system is powered by the aircraft battery and powers flight instruments and avionics necessary for a safe diversion. The APU may be started at FL300 or below, sometimes well below depending on how cold soaked it is.
 

DC9stick

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
147
Total Time
13000
The pilot of a Navajo operated by a former employer found the aux tanks full when he preflighted, normal procedure was full mains and 15 ea. aux, thinking someone topped it off by mistake and ferrying to pick up 2 people he didn't see a problem with full tanks. Reaching cruise flight he switched to the aux tanks and very high CHT and engine roughness began soon thereafter, switched back to main tanks and engine operation returned to normal. The aux tanks had been topped off by mistake, with JET-A! Pilots of piston airplanes should be aware of the possibility of fuel contamination. An easy check for jet fuel is to take a strip of plain white paper and dip it in the fuel if it is avgas it will evaporate leaving no sign it was ever wet. If it is contaminated with even a small amount of jet it will appear oily and will never completely dry. Afer the above incident I did this test on every flight that I did not personally observe the fueling of the aircraft.
 

TurboS7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
2,261
Total Time
19,210
We had 3 pilots and 5 flight attendants riding as passengers on that flight. It sounds like a lot more went on inside the cabin than anyone wants to admit. Once it gets out it is going to be a tough go for Spirit.
 

TriStar_drvr

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
427
Total Time
12000+
I'll bet a lot went on in that cabin. I wouldn't exactly be Mr. Calm if it suddenly got dark and quiet in there...

Anybody know at what altitude they were when power was restored?
 

TurboS7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
2,261
Total Time
19,210
One of the F/A's that was a passenger on the airplane said that they glided to the runway,but that comes from one of our FA's.......... I haven't seen Steve the captain of the crew to see what he had to say. He said that he knew that they lost one for sure, so that means that power via the APU must have been restored. But this is all speculation. Keep in mind if the news media gets ahold of this one they will have a hay day. Something that will not be good for any of us.
 

AV1ATRX

That is all.
Joined
Nov 30, 2001
Posts
262
Total Time
****
I just wanted to say thanks for the Navajo informatin. As a former PA-31-350 pilot, I soak in all the information I can about them. My former employer required us to personally oversee refueling operations, but sometimes during a quickturn on a cargo drop-off it got done before you could see what truck it was. If I ever get employed as a charter pilot again :) I'm going to try the paper test. I'm surprised that something about the Spirit incident hasn't gotten out yet. I'm looking forward to hearing why that happened.
 

enigma

good ol boy
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
2,279
Total Time
>1500
TurboS7 said:
.......... . He said that he knew that they lost one for sure, so that means that power via the APU must have been restored.

You know more than I about the incident, and I don't mean to be smart; but how do you come to that conclusion? I'm at a loss to understand how you could deduce that his certainty about one failure was based upon restoration of APU power.

About the APU, I don't have my manuals in front of me, but it would be possible to start the APU regardless of the state of the engines. If the engines are dead, the APU starter is disabled, but an airstart is possible. If normal A/C power is available (one engine gen turning) then the APU can be started with its starter. As the DC9Stick said, sometimes the APU doesn't really want to start when it is cold soaked and the air is thin; but after warmer/denser air is reached, it should windmill to a start.

8N

a note to my friends, No it wasn't me.
 

homebrew

Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2002
Posts
17
Total Time
5000+
Hey TurboS7,

My best bud was the F/O on that flight, and your moron theory isn't anywhere near what happened. It sickens me that you are willing to scream pilot error, with your apparent lack of knowledge in this incident. Fact is they both did an incredible job of staying calm and safely landing the airplane in Wichita. There were heroics performed by those pilots that flight, not errors. Out of respect for my friend, I told him I would not indulge to anyone the specifics of the flight until the investigation is over, but I can assure you they did a great job in a situation most every pilot could classify as their worst nightmare.
 

Ted Striker

Piece of the Portfolio
Joined
Dec 7, 2001
Posts
399
Total Time
3800
Oh come on!!

Wow TurboS7... pretty brazen. Do you work for FoxNews or CNN? They are also amazing people, they like to pretend to know. Even when they know sh!t about nothing.
 

Dieterly

Resident Porn Peddler
Joined
Mar 2, 2002
Posts
405
Total Time
-
What do you expect? He flies for an Airline, owned by a scab. Wait a second, isn't he also a scab?:D
 

Swass

So long, America.....
Joined
Jan 10, 2003
Posts
2,015
Total Time
3,000+
You're a dingus. I was flying that plane and I say it was my fault. I like to do deadstick landings every now and then.
 

Swass

So long, America.....
Joined
Jan 10, 2003
Posts
2,015
Total Time
3,000+
Man this is one old thread that I inadvertantly awakened. I remember this on the news, I saw the aircraft at ICT. I was wondering if anything ever came of it and just what the heroics were (that were mentioned in the thread)?
 
Top