DOT seeks age 60 opinion, young guys speak up

[BoilerUP]

It's going to 65, get use to it.

As much as I don't like it, I think he's probably right.

 

[Cardinal]

"I am an airline pilot, and I have accepted that the rigorous schedule placed upon us may lead to a shortened lifespan. Considering this, I do not wish to meet my natural end while in command of an airliner filled with innocent passengers. Adjusting the mandatory retirement age for airline pilots above age 60 is inconsistent and in stark opposition to the current and unchallenged mandatory retirement age for air traffic controllers, age 56. Please maintain the long established, successful, and safe age 60 rule."

 

[Klako]

"I am an airline pilot, and I have accepted that the rigorous schedule placed upon us may lead to a shortened lifespan. Considering this, I do not wish to meet my natural end while in command of an airliner filled with innocent passengers. Adjusting the mandatory retirement age for airline pilots above age 60 is inconsistent and in stark opposition to the current and unchallenged mandatory retirement age for air traffic controllers, age 56. Please maintain the long established, successful, and safe age 60 rule."

You are sooo dramitic, maby you should be a soap actor, not a pilot.

The bottom line is there is no credible information available that supports the notion that airline pilots over age 60 pose more of a safety risk than younger pilots. There are, however, numerous credible reports supporting a ban on the FAA’s arbitrary age 60 mandatory retirement law. Now the FAA says that it is "NEUTRAL" as "safety" can no longer be used as a valid argument against changing the "Age 60 Rule Increasing the “Age 60 Rule” to age 65.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8530235634119565043&q=age+60



BTW, The FAA's own modification of its air traffic controller retirement age demonstrates that the FAA no longer considers age as a safety issue. The agency has long held that 56 was a required age due to safety but this year granted age-waivers to the age of 61. At the latest Senate hearing on the Age 60 Rule, the FAA's Dr. Jordan could not construct a valid response when asked by Senator Stevens why pilots were not granted waivers based on proficiency if controllers were. When FAA Administrator Blakey was asked at a news conference if waivers would be granted pilots, she commented there was no need as there "is no pilot shortage", mentioning nothing about safety. With those words she turned the Age 60 Rule into a jobs program.

 

[Cardinal]

turned the Age 60 Rule into a jobs program.

I have no problem with that. It's clear the scientific basis is tenuous. This issue is a social one, hence my dramatic tone, might make a good sound bite, as it were, during a hearing. The question is flying to within 10 years of one's life expectancy http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html or not.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Congressman Jim Gibbons in serious trouble

If Congressman R-Nev. Jim Gibbons gets prosecuted on criminal charges age 60 is in serious jeopardy. H.65 is not out of the House of Rep. Transportation committee yet and with the author of H.65 facing charges this could all come to a screeching halt.

Looking forward to the DA pressing charges!!!!!!!!

http://www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp?S=5610655&nav=15MV

 

[Klako]

I have no problem with that. It's clear the scientific basis is tenuous. This issue is a social one, hence my dramatic tone, might make a good sound bite, as it were, during a hearing. The question is flying to within 10 years of one's life expectancy http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html or not.

I strongly disagree, people who are active do live much longer.


Most of us have probably made observations that people who retire early, too often die early. Early retirement clearly appears to be unnatural for healthy people. People tend to deteriorate faster if they stop being productive especially after an active life long profession.
“Early Retirement May Mean Earlier Death”--- Primary source: British Medical Journal
Source reference:
"Age at retirement and long-term survival of an industrial population: prospective cohort study," BMJ, published online Oct. 20, 2005.
“…Study found that retiring at age 55 was associated with an almost two-fold greater risk of dying compared with employees who postponed retirement until their 60s…investigators found that embarking on the Golden Years at age 55 doubled the risk for death before reaching age 65, compared with those who toiled beyond age 60…”
http://www.medpagetoday.com/PrimaryCare/PreventiveCare/tb/1980

 

[Andy]

I would be willing to bet you Andy, that I will remain in my left seat by this time next year.

What would you like to bet? And how do you propose to enforce that bet?

Andy is the biggest hypocrite of them all. One can glean from reading all of Andy’s posts that he really would favor a change to the age 60 rule, only at a later time when he himself is approaching age 60 and not sooner.

That is incorrect. I have no desire to fly past 60, and I have made financial plans to act accordingly.

Andy has declined recall only because he has a cushy military job that will tide him over with a nice income until he decides when it is most advantageous for him to be recalled.

Yep, I'm in a cushy military job. :erm: A cushy job that required me to drop everything that I was doing and go TDY last weekend. I love my current job and have no problem working whenever they need me.
I had use/lose leave at the end of September (as a reservist, I have to burn up all leave before my orders end). I took leave to make sure that it didn't reflect badly on my unit, and ended up going to work during most of my leave.
It's a great job, but I wouldn't label it as cushy.
I tried to volunteer to go to the sandbox (I feel that it's my duty) but my boss won't let me.

I bypassed on recall for the September class at United because I want to be able to remain in the military for as long as possible; United allows up to six years of military leave and I plan on using the full amount after recall.
I have informed the recall coordinator at United that I will accept recall for the Feb 07 class; five months after my original recall date. Based on how fast United is burning through the recall list, I doubt that I'll be able to delay recall much longer than April 07. I will immediately go on military leave of absence.

Andy earns field grade military pay while posting anti age 60 rule change comments on every site he can find.

Yes, I am a field grade officer. LtCol. What does this have to do with the topic at hand?

I post on this site, airlinepilotcentral.com, and the United pilot website. If you've got others that you lurk at, let me know; I'll post there also.
I spend a lot of time on the road and am able to use wifi in airports and hotel rooms to post; ain't technology wonderful?

He plans that the age 60 rule will continue to work in his favor by ensuring his movement up the seniority list. Then, just before he sees age 60, he will join APAAD and be an activist for the age 60 rule to be extended to 65, just in time for him.

Hmm. Thanks for the prediction, Nostradamus. However, since you were unable to forecast your personal financial train wreck, your omniscient powers are overrated.
Let me make this perfectly clear. I will not fly commercial aircraft past the age of 60, change or no change.

 

[glasspilot1]

I strongly disagree, people who are active do live much longer.

Are you saying that retired folks are not active?

 

[Klako]

Are you saying that retired folks are not active?

When people are forced to stop doing the activity that defines their identity, i.e. continuing in the profession that they love, this is unhealthy and leads to deterioration. Forced retirement for most airline pilots at age 60 is unnatural. I would say that least 95% of the pilots who could choose to fly past age 60 and if given the chance would remain exceedingly fit to fly to at least age 65. However, I would also say that at least 20% of all pilots in their 40s and 50s are miserable in their airline careers and are rapidly becoming physically unfit to fly. The later group will most certainly opt to retire at age 60 or earlier.

I do not have documentation to this but I think that all of us who have been around the industry for awhile could agree with my observations.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

DOT acting dishonesly

The DOT is stacking the deck towards the pro age 60 change.

November 2, 2006

Opportunity for comment to FAA and ARC regarding Age 60 Rule – New Information
A blastmail/fastread was sent out last week about the opportunity to comment on the Age 60 Rule. The previous website mentioned (regulations.gov) is apparently not functioning to allow comments. ALPA has notified the site administrator of the problem and they are aware of it. We are unsure of how long it will take for the site to be corrected.

The comment period is STILL OPEN until Nov. 15. Below is information on an alternate site for submitting your comments.

To send your comments, which must be received on or before November 15, 2006,

1. Go to http://dms.dot.gov
2. Click on one of the buttons: "Comment/Submissions."
3. There is no need to register, click on the "Continue" button.
4. The Docket ID Number is: FAA-2006-26139
5. Operating Adminstration is: FAA
6. Document Title is: Age 60 Aviation Rulemaking Committee; Request for Comments
7. Fill in the rest of the form as needed, click "Continue" at the bottom.
8. Page will open up allowing comments to be typed into a text box. Click "Submit."

You can also still send comments via fax or US mail or hand delivery. To use any of these methods, identify your comment by including the Docket Number FAA-2006- 26139.

US Mail: Docket Management Facility; U.S. Department of Transportation, 400 Seventh Street, SW., Nassif Building, Room PL-401, Washington, DC 20590-0001.

Fax: 1-202-493-2251.

Hand Delivery: Room PL-401 on the plaza level of the Nassif Building, 400 Seventh Street, SW., Washington, DC, between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m., Monday through Friday, except Federal holidays.

Background: In November 2006, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) will adopt an amendment to increase the ``upper age limit'' for airline pilots up to age 65 provided another crewmember pilot is under age 60. On September 27, 2006, Administrator Blakey established an Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) on the Age 60 issue. One of its tasks is to recommend whether the United States should adopt the new ICAO standard. The FAA and the ARC are requesting comments from the public about whether the FAA should adopt the ICAO standard and any issues surrounding adopting or not adopting the standard.