DL's TA and Regional Contracts at a Glance

[xjhawk]

I think Pinnacle will be on the end of losing all or most of their CRJ 200's. But there are some who think Pinnacle will get the 70 new regional planes from the Delta contract. I tend to think those 70 planes will be used as a carrot to have other DCI carriers remove their crj 200's on a 2:1 basis like ASA did with those 900's that Mesaba was suppose to get.

What does the number 450 mean to you if you are at Pinnacle? Its your seniority number and you are the last FO on the seniority list. That is what 450 means to me.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Pinnacle post bankruptcy will have much more advantage to take airplanes and shed many older 200s that at maintenance problems. No one should see Pinnacle as all but gone. They will be a significant force to be reckoned with, and other DCI carriers should pay close attention.

 

[Canadair RJ]

1. DING DING DING
2. WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER

Keep an eye on the APA/AA deal. IF and IF that deal passes, there will be a 3 way deal that involves AA, DAL, SKYW and ASA. Sorry XE.

Right. Because more unprofitable 50 seat flying is just what AMR wants and needs. What flavor kool aid are y'all drinking over there? Some of you guys are ridiculous.

 

[XPOO]

Right. Because more unprofitable 50 seat flying is just what AMR wants and needs. What flavor kool aid are y'all drinking over there? Some of you guys are ridiculous.

It's profitable when SkyWest can operate those 50s cheaper than anyone else in the industry. Just ask United. SkyWest started flying at-risk routes with 50s about three years ago, and today United has taken them all back under contract. Are you telling me United is taking back unprofitable flying?

 

[Canadair RJ]

It's profitable when SkyWest can operate those 50s cheaper than anyone else in the industry. Just ask United. SkyWest started flying at-risk routes with 50s about three years ago, and today United has taken them all back under contract. Are you telling me United is taking back unprofitable flying?

That very well may be, but I don't see it in writing and generally do take anything I see on these forums with a grain of salt. But, I'm saying why would AMR feed out 50 seat flying? Especially with them taking so much from the Eagle contracts, it's going to be cheaper to do it in house. Plus they don't want to grow that flying. Now, the 70+ seat flying...I could possibly see an argument for that. I'd expect the bottom feeders to win out on this as well. And FWIW, I did read an article a few months back saying SkyWest rejected two RFPs because they wouldn't be profitable.

 

[777forever]

Pinnacle post bankruptcy will have much more advantage to take airplanes and shed many older 200s that at maintenance problems. No one should see Pinnacle as all but gone. They will be a significant force to be reckoned with, and other DCI carriers should pay close attention.

I disagree. Haven't seen a peep of growth out of post bankruptcy Mesa. Maybe if the mainline carrier supplies the planes but I just can't see PNCL financing a large amount of RJs at a competitive rate vs a large stable company like SKW.

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[777forever]

That very well may be, but I don't see it in writing and generally do take anything I see on these forums with a grain of salt. But, I'm saying why would AMR feed out 50 seat flying? Especially with them taking so much from the Eagle contracts, it's going to be cheaper to do it in house. Plus they don't want to grow that flying. Now, the 70+ seat flying...I could possibly see an argument for that. I'd expect the bottom feeders to win out on this as well. And FWIW, I did read an article a few months back saying SkyWest rejected two RFPs because they wouldn't be profitable.

One was definitely the 12 Comair planes that went to GoJet and the other I think was the United Q400 flying.

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[CRJ puppy]

Pinnacle post bankruptcy will have much more advantage to take airplanes and shed many older 200s that at maintenance problems. No one should see Pinnacle as all but gone. They will be a significant force to be reckoned with, and other DCI carriers should pay close attention.

This is called "bait". Please don't take the bait. You will end up being someone's "prize".

 

[i fly boxes]

I bet gojet gets every single new 900 plus all of comairs. I bet they will be over 100 planes in 3 years

 

[777forever]

I bet gojet gets every single new 900 plus all of comairs. I bet they will be over 100 planes in 3 years

I bet they don't get any planes that aren't already owned by Delta. I bet they get Comairs 700s and 900s at best, nothing more.




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[Cpt Oveur]

I disagree. Haven't seen a peep of growth out of post bankruptcy Mesa. Maybe if the mainline carrier supplies the planes but I just can't see PNCL financing a large amount of RJs at a competitive rate vs a large stable company like SKW.

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Look at their quarterly statements regarding the DIP financing from Delta. No doubt they will be smaller than they are today, but now with big D's vested interest, I'm paying more attention to them.

 

[i fly boxes]

Even though Delta has provided pinnacle with so much financing, would they care about the loss if they were able to shed all 140 of their 200's in exchange for 70 900's? Im not a financial guy so i dont know. I also dont know if delta has to honor pinnacles asa in chapter 11 and we dont even know what the new asa is because its confidential. There are so many variables but the one thing that is certain is that no one can compete with how cheaply gojet can operate these planes and that is probably what delta cares about. And if gojet can't staff the planes properly then they have to pay penalties to delta so delta wins either way!

 

[777forever]

Look at their quarterly statements regarding the DIP financing from Delta. No doubt they will be smaller than they are today, but now with big D's vested interest, I'm paying more attention to them.

True, it will be very interesting to watch. I think it will come down to if Delta is going to purchase the 76 seater RJs themselves. If they do, I see Compass and GoJet getting the lion's share

If the RFP requires the regional airline to finance the jets SKW has little to no competition.

Same situation at AMR. And I doubt AMR will be financing regional jets themselves when they don't have to.

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[amcnd]

True, it will be very interesting to watch. I think it will come down to if Delta is going to purchase the 76 seater RJs themselves. If they do, I see Compass and GoJet getting the lion's share

If the RFP requires the regional airline to finance the jets SKW has little to no competition.

Same situation at AMR. And I doubt AMR will be financing regional jets themselves when they don't have to.

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I agree.. Plus they need to get out of ASA/SkY contracts..If they dont they will have those 200's flying tell 2020...(150 of them) How are they going to do this unless they trade up to 900's. they will want to spread the 200's that will be left, over 3-4 airlines. 30-45 each. This will keep the cost down as the "rate reset" will keep the airlines in check with each other.. The big tell tell will be who is behind the financing on the 70 new airplanes..... I don't think we will see anything for about 3 months... As Delta "strong arms" everyone with a RFP...

 

[XPOO]

Also, easily forgetable, is the fact that SkyWest, Inc. has in their contract with Delta a stipulation (during the sale of ASA) to do a certain percentage of all Connection flights.

 

[amcnd]

Also, easily forgetable, is the fact that SkyWest, Inc. has in their contract with Delta a stipulation (during the sale of ASA) to do a certain percentage of all Connection flights.

Yes 80% out of Atlanta, on the ASA side. And SKW has a min block hour limit... That will come into play... Comair seems to have no protection, 9E?? Not sure right now with the CH11, CHQ not sure whats in there contract. But im sure they have a penlty clause.... CHQ not operating CRJ's anymore, they just may want out of there contract..

 

[russtgol]

Don't you guys have something better to do than come on here and speculate? Maybe go start your own airline?

 

[777forever]

Don't you guys have something better to do than come on here and speculate? Maybe go start your own airline?

What's the point of pilot forums then?

 

[sinkrate]

Also, easily forgetable, is the fact that SkyWest, Inc. has in their contract with Delta a stipulation (during the sale of ASA) to do a certain percentage of all Connection flights.

That percentage specifies 80% of the fifty seat flights from ATL. If there are zero fifty seat flights from ATL then ASA could have zero CRJs. Somewhere along the way in an interview RA said DAL wanted to reduce the daily departures out of ATL to less than 800 and they planned for all of the reduction to be fifty seat AC.

 

[79%N1]

That percentage specifies 80% of the fifty seat flights from ATL. If there are zero fifty seat flights from ATL then ASA could have zero CRJs. Somewhere along the way in an interview RA said DAL wanted to reduce the daily departures out of ATL to less than 800 and they planned for all of the reduction to be fifty seat AC.

Buuuzzzzzzz. Nope. Wrong.

Does not specify, in fact, it was an issue on the last 2 for 1 swap if ASA still,had the 80%.

 

[OCP]

Its 80% of DCI flying out of ATL, not based an any airplane.

 

[jynxyjericho]

What's the point of pilot forums then?

To-... wait. Hehe, oh yeah you're right! I feel 30% smarter.

 

[i fly boxes]

Dont worry that 80% thing will change, after Delta gets done with pinnacle, United and Delta will work a deal to Bankrupt Express Jet next. Skywest will come out untouched but since United Let Delta take all of Pinnacles flying away, Delta will probably let United make express Jet stop flying for delta and put them in to chapter 11.

 

[russtgol]

Dont worry that 80% thing will change, after Delta gets done with pinnacle, United and Delta will work a deal to Bankrupt Express Jet next. Skywest will come out untouched but since United Let Delta take all of Pinnacles flying away, Delta will probably let United make express Jet stop flying for delta and put them in to chapter 11.

WOW..Your smart

 

[Explosive]

Buuuzzzzzzz. Nope. Wrong.

Does not specify, in fact, it was an issue on the last 2 for 1 swap if ASA still,had the 80%.

ASA does not have to have 80% of the connection flights out of ATL, SkyWest, Inc. does. They could just add some SkyWest flights and be in perfect compliance. It still protects against being filled in with other companies though.

From the SkyWest 10-K:

We have separate, but substantially similar, long-term fixed-fee Delta Connection Agreements with Delta for both SkyWest Airlines and ASA. We also control 29 gates in the Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport located in Atlanta, from which we currently provide service to Delta. Delta has agreed that ASA and SkyWest Airlines will operate, collectively, not less than 80% of all Delta Connection program departures scheduled at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.​

 

[russtgol]

Damn 79%N1 just got b!tch slapped

 

[xjhawk]

It looks like we know who will be parking the first 200's when they get the 15 Pinnacle CRJ 900's that will be lost in the bankruptcy. I would assume that is going to be 30-45 CRJ 200's parked by either ASA or Skywest in trade for those planes. 45 down, 185 or so to go.

 

[79%N1]

Damn 79%N1 just got b!tch slapped

No, 79% responded to the post that it was crj 200 flying only. I never said or eluded to anything about Skywest.

 

[titans10]

Don't you think delta can rework the contract if both agrees. It could be less then 80 percent. You never know what is in the works by both companies.

 

[amcnd]

The SkyWest update says, they want to work with Delta to meet there needs and be successful. So yes they could let Delta out of the "sepicific" things Delta does'nt like in the ASA/SKY contract.. (the 80% and the min block hour) so what are they willing to trade?? When will we find out the breakdown of the 200's leaving and the 900's comming...?? Not soon enough...