DL/NWA Seniority List Integration Arbitration starts TODAY...article

[GogglesPisano]

I guess that's why they are upgrading the engines on them--to park them.

Or sell them. Then again, maybe our EVP of Ops and Pres of Tech Ops were mistaken.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Is that the line your hearing now Fins? It doesn't surprise me, but are they really saying that in public?

No, that is from a decade ago.

 

[Turtle21]

.. This fact is alluded to strongly in a Q&A with EVP Ops and Pres of tech Ops. ..

Strongly alluded facts, and in a Q&A no less! If we check YouTube can we see a video of those alluded facts!? (My apologies, no disrespect is meant to you personally).


Its just such a disappointment that ALPA (national?? union) devolved itself to an impotent and useless merger policy that is so impotent it cannot even defend itself against "strongly alluded facts in a Q&A"... and repeated third or forth hand on a message board to boot.

Harbor no illusions, ALPA merger policy is exactly that powerless.

 

[nwaredtail]

I hear you and agree. Unfortunately, it is as bad as it looks....

And the 787's, which were the saving grace for NWA pilot jobs (they were supposed to start flying them this month!), won't be here for at least 2 more years!

Check out Day 2 of the testimony. It's unbelievable how much their DC-9 time has already dropped. The witness goes through about 2 dozen different routes to illustrate how the RJ's have taken over.

To be fair, that same thing has happened at DAL and other carriers over the years....but not at such a fast rate. And for the NWA pilots, the timing couldn't be worse!

Both fleets at DAL (narrow and wide body) are expanding right now....that is a fact.

NWA's narrow body fleet is shrinking fast....that is a fact.

NWA's 747-200's are at best shrinking....worst case scenario, going away. That isn't necessarily fact, but it sure looks that way.


Whichever way this thing goes, we'll know something soon. I'm just glad I don't have to argue their case in all of this.

And I wish I had a copy of that cool video they showed with the teary eyed NW pilot talking about his love of the whale.

Sadly (for them), I think that video is all they got...


Abe

So i can tell you know quite a bit about arbitrations,

 

[TWA Dude]

Turtle21 (disgruntled USAirways East pilot):

I gotta ask what's your point on this thread. Everybody knows you hate ALPA Merger Policy because you didn't get the integration you wanted. But what use is it repeating how much you hate when they've already made their decisions?

With full knowledge of what came to pass with USA/AWA the DAL and NW pilots agreed to settle their seniority through a binding arbitration panel. This is their way of telling you and all USAirways pilots that they're still interested in fairness rather than the tryanny of the majority. You just can't seem to hear it.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Yes, but somehow RJ pilots are not "qualified" for a staple. Go figure

Only if their lawsuit say so!

 

[MCDU]

Scope is a dope

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Scope is a dope

Is this Marty the UAL pilot? Or Marty the CAL pilot?
No, its Marty the Gulfstream pilot!

MCDoosh = 1 airline strike away from his next job!:bomb:

 

[Turtle21]

Turtle21 (disgruntled USAirways East pilot):

I gotta ask what's your point on this thread. Everybody knows you hate ALPA Merger Policy because you didn't get the integration you wanted. But what use is it repeating how much you hate when they've already made their decisions?

With full knowledge of what came to pass with USA/AWA the DAL and NW pilots agreed to settle their seniority through a binding arbitration panel. This is their way of telling you and all USAirways pilots that they're still interested in fairness rather than the tryanny of the majority. You just can't seem to hear it.

Disgruntled? Hardly. I am rather content as I never worked for the wonderful ALPA carrier called TWA. And by the way it was a wonderful carrier in spite of ALPA. I haven't been screwed enough yet to be disgruntled. And besides I don't pay money to ALPA] so how can I be disgruntled? :laugh:

As to the DAL/NWA "message" to "you and all USAir pilots"...


LOL! What center-of-the-earth, selfish perspective is necessary to think DAL/NWA has any intention of using their merger to send a message to "disgruntled pilots" at USAir. Its sorta ironic that it wasn't an East pilot who conjured up the thought that the NWA/DAL merger is "all about what they are doing for me."

Frankly it is a real shame that ALPA gets paid while they watch the next seniority train-wreck. But if that weren't enough, others suggest the SLI process isn't about obtaining a fair and equitable seniority list for DAL/NWA.. but instead its all about sending a message to console disgruntled pilots who got fed to AA by ALPA.

 

[TWA Dude]

Turtle: I noticed you avoided answering my simple question. Oh well.

Here's another one: if the NW and DAL pilots accept the arbitration without going ballistic what does that say about the evil ALPA?

 

[Turtle21]

Turtle: I noticed you avoided answering my simple question. Oh well.

Here's another one: if the NW and DAL pilots accept the arbitration without going ballistic what does that say about the evil ALPA?

If NW DAL is satisfied with the new list (that will be part of the contract they have already accepted) then it means ALPA got lucky.

ALPA has nothing to do with SLI. Thats the whole point of giving it to an arbitrator. Its quite a scheme to get paid for an appearance of a union but not to have to do the work. Heck how can you fault them for taking what they can have given to them?

 

[TWA Dude]

ALPA has nothing to do with SLI.

Nice joke.

 

[tomgoodman]

Questions

At this point, is there any chance of a negotiated SLI agreement? Was it ever politically possible?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Turtle: I noticed you avoided answering my simple question. Oh well.

Here's another one: if the NW and DAL pilots accept the arbitration without going ballistic what does that say about the evil ALPA?

It says that it was never about ALPA and only about the scumbag eastholes not manning up to their obligations!

 

[Superpilot92]

Abe,

Give it a rest.

I know you DAL guys love to make fun of the DC9 and how we are slowly phasing them out. At some point the MD-88 will need to be phased out too.

Don't give me this crap about how you are entitled to seniority because our DC9s are starting to go away.

One thing I have not seen addressed on this board is the fact that the NWA leadership team has not been proactive in trying to replace our DC9s with anything. They have stated that the engine technology is just not there for the 100-125 seat range airplane. Besides if you were here you would recognize that this airline has been for sale for the past year. This is self-evident in the way they have been running the operation on a shoe string budget. It was just an excuse to keep building the Compass operation. Is that our fault? Is it DAL pilot's fault that you led the pack in giving up scope to your regional carriers?

Either way you cut it, don't try to leverage our DC9 pilots away because it is an old airplane we are drawing down. A lot of the pilots that fly these airplanes have more than 8 years of seniority. Keep that in mind.

DEAD ON! We have a winner!

 

[PuffDriver]

Originally Posted by RedRum
Abe,

Give it a rest.

I know you DAL guys love to make fun of the DC9 and how we are slowly phasing them out. At some point the MD-88 will need to be phased out too.

Don't give me this crap about how you are entitled to seniority because our DC9s are starting to go away.

One thing I have not seen addressed on this board is the fact that the NWA leadership team has not been proactive in trying to replace our DC9s with anything. They have stated that the engine technology is just not there for the 100-125 seat range airplane. Besides if you were here you would recognize that this airline has been for sale for the past year. This is self-evident in the way they have been running the operation on a shoe string budget. It was just an excuse to keep building the Compass operation. Is that our fault? Is it DAL pilot's fault that you led the pack in giving up scope to your regional carriers?

Either way you cut it, don't try to leverage our DC9 pilots away because it is an old airplane we are drawing down. A lot of the pilots that fly these airplanes have more than 8 years of seniority. Keep that in mind.

We have a winner? Puulleeaasseee. Trying to convince anyone that the -9s are not going away is just ludicrous. They are, what's worse, there are now. So, yes, that matters with regard to the jobs that NWA pilots bring to the table. It is not YOUR seniority, it is OUR--collective--seniority, and it must be distributed fairly. Part of it will be that NWa pilots take a hit for the loss of these airframes.

As for the -80s going away "someday", so will the 777s as well as the 787s. Unfortunately, none of these dates are specific like they are with the -9s. You are grasping at straws like your buddy Occam.

As for replacement aircraft for them, and NWA not being proactive, indeed they have been proactive--replacing them with Rjs. Unfortunately for NWA pilots, that was the plan over there, and does not bode well for the jobs brought to the table. That is what counts, not whos fault it is or isn't. NWA pilots aren't to blame, yet they are indeed victims of the circumstance, which directly corresponds to jobs, which cuts into the seniority arbitration.

Trying to leverage your DC-9 pilots away due to the drawdown of the aircraft is EXACTLY what is relevant in this arbitration.

..and superpilot thinks we have a winner. Grow up little boys.

 

[skystud25]

We have a winner? Puulleeaasseee. Trying to convince anyone that the -9s are not going away is just ludicrous. They are, what's worse, there are now. So, yes, that matters with regard to the jobs that NWA pilots bring to the table. It is not YOUR seniority, it is OUR--collective--seniority, and it must be distributed fairly. Part of it will be that NWa pilots take a hit for the loss of these airframes.

As for the -80s going away "someday", so will the 777s as well as the 787s. Unfortunately, none of these dates are specific like they are with the -9s. You are grasping at straws like your buddy Occam.

As for replacement aircraft for them, and NWA not being proactive, indeed they have been proactive--replacing them with Rjs. Unfortunately for NWA pilots, that was the plan over there, and does not bode well for the jobs brought to the table. That is what counts, not whos fault it is or isn't. NWA pilots aren't to blame, yet they are indeed victims of the circumstance, which directly corresponds to jobs, which cuts into the seniority arbitration.

Trying to leverage your DC-9 pilots away due to the drawdown of the aircraft is EXACTLY what is relevant in this arbitration.

..and superpilot thinks we have a winner. Grow up little boys.

Ran into a Continental pilot a few days back on the train at DIA, a senior ALPA guy. We got to talking about the SLI and he made a statement, maybe because he knew I was a Delta guy, but I thought it was interesting, if not necessarily true (I really don't know). He said "if it wasn't for this merger, NWA would have already furloughed and DL would be hiring." I'm wondering how many of you from both sides agree with this statement?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree 100% and it has been echoed by the Regional CP's as well as a lot farther up the food chain.
Fact it is what it is. There is no going back now.

 

[another cfii]

We all need to work on our CRM

With the amount of animosity shown on this webboard, I can only imagine what would be like for the first DL FO to fly with a CA coming from the NWA side, and vice versa.

There seems to be a lot of mis-information, mistrust, among the pilot rank from what I observed, during several JS on my own company flights, and on NWA flights.

I think most of the pilot ranks do want to play nice, and they are just curious what the future brings for the whole 11k of us working in this volatile economy.

I do sincerely hope that once that SLI is negotiated/arbitrated, we can all join together in more "informal" settings to get to know each other, trying to find common background, make some new friends. I think that should be one of the priorities for our management team/DALPA after we merge, if they say how much they value our teamwork is true.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Ran into a Continental pilot a few days back on the train at DIA, a senior ALPA guy. We got to talking about the SLI and he made a statement, maybe because he knew I was a Delta guy, but I thought it was interesting, if not necessarily true (I really don't know). He said "if it wasn't for this merger, NWA would have already furloughed and DL would be hiring." I'm wondering how many of you from both sides agree with this statement?

I think Northwest's last new hire class was in April. Why did they even bother hiring to just furlough? You might be right. This industry sucks.