DL/NWA Seniority List Integration Arbitration starts TODAY...article

[Noserider76]

The NWA/REP merger was straight DOH, with conditions and restrictions, which ignored previous merger methods.

Nu

Conditions and restrictions which effectively nulified DOH and made it almost a staple, for what 20 years?

 

[Superpilot92]

I personally know an ex republic pilot who is chomping at the bit to finally bid something large, and he thinks this merger will allow it, when his redbook "friends" would not. That is another thing dumped on the Delta pilots, repressed seniority waiting to explode onto their new planes.

As mentioned those guys can all bid what they want now. nice attempt at stirring the pot though.

 

[Occam's Razor]

NWA 757 paid less than Deltas. NWA a330 darn near paid less than Deltas 757s.

I get it. You don't. It matters ONLY if you think the basis for the pay disparity should reflect in the SLI. Since the formula reflects their productivity, the issue becomes neutral.

It appears our side is making an issue of the numbers of jobs that were attached to aircraft that had bigger numbers in the mutually-accepted formula.

YOU appear to believe that fluctuating rates are more important that the underlying basis for the rates.

Neogitating captital, a lot of it, was used to bring NWA up to Delta compensation, and then give NWA equity.

1. So what? Your tenure at DAL doesn't give you the first-hand experience to put that in context. Remember when you went on strike to generate leverage? No? You didn't?

2. Was it done unilaterally or with preconditions WRT the SLI? If your answer to both of those questions is "no" [Hint: It is], it has no bearing on the matter at hand.

3. Inadmissable. Deal with it...

That will be reflected in the NWA career expectations as well as Delta career expectations. It is not a dream. It is reality. Your pay sucked. Our sucked much less. That matters, a lot.

The rates won't...the numbers of pilots will. Ironically, that is the essence of your side's proposal.

The "reality" is that pay rates don't matter...either before, or after. What matters is where we are on the list, and how important the panel feels our expectations of movement are. One of those is measurable. One is not.

I guess next is Superdupercalifragilistic premium widebody flying. Or perhaps the argument that red is a more senior color than blue. Oh yeah, age, let's use that.

Grow up.

The descriptor is used to differentiate aircraft by size. Simple terms like "widebody" get blurry when a "narrowbody" B757-300 carries more than a "widebody" B767...or a "widebody" A330 is lumped as the equivalent of a smaller "widebody" such as the B767ER.

We reached a compromise on the pay rates for those aircraft within the JCBA, but we KNOW size matters when we talk numbers of pilots...because we tie our productivity to size. And productivity is the bedrock of our contract.

Oh, BTW, the C2K springboard came off of United, whos springboard came off of our 777/764 agreement--they called it the Delta dot--just to bring you up to the facts pertaining c2k

What springboard did you use for the 777/764 agreement?

It's called Pattern Bargaining. It means timing matters. It means the actions of other pilot groups matter. And really, it means that sometimes it don't matter who you are, what you are, or even how good you are. Sometimes all that matters is when you are.

Still waiting for you to provide some examples of the "recent experience" you cited here:

While that is your opinion, recent experience has shown something somewhat different.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I personally know an ex republic pilot who is chomping at the bit to finally bid something large, and he thinks this merger will allow it, when his redbook "friends" would not. That is another thing dumped on the Delta pilots, repressed seniority waiting to explode onto their new planes.

Hence the reason the 787 Dreamliner is known as the Green liner

 

[Truckdriver]

The fences dropped in 2006...ex republic guys should have been able to bid to whatever they wanted since then.

Yeah, but they can only bid into a vacancy or growth slot and I beleive that not all of them have been able to bid into widebody positions yet.

 

[Truckdriver]

DOH is the easiest way to go, but it is a far cry from fair and equitable for the Delta guys.

 

[NuGuy]

DOH is the easiest way to go, but it is a far cry from fair and equitable for the Delta guys.

Heyas TD,

I would say that "it depends". It depends on which section of the list that you are looking at.

In most cases, especially towards the bottom half of each list, DOH works for both lists very well.

Nu

 

[johnsonrod]

No matter what happens, just think that it could always be a lot WORSE - you could be a USAirways pilot... YIKES! Instead, you will fly for the largest and potentially one of the most profitable airlines (beyond SWA) in the world.

I think we tend to forget that it could always be worse...

 

[abe44]

The arbitration hearing transcript makes for some interesting reading.

The NWA side has a huge problem, IMO. How do you argue for anything close to relative senority (let alone DOH...hahaha) when your airline has been shrinking (Dc-9's, 747-200's, loss of DHL contract, parking 757s) and the replacement planes aren't coming for a long time (late 2010 for the 787).

Meanwhile, Delta has added a bunch of airframes in the last few years (777's, 757s and 737s) and continues to expand with solid orders (of planes that have actually flown) in the near term.

My guess is that the best deal that the NWA pilots will see in the integration is/was back at the negotiating table. Unfortunately, that offer is long gone....

Now it's up to their lawyers to argue an impossible case.

And a teary eyed NWA pilot on a video talking about his dream of flying a 747 is not a good start....



Abe

 

[jetflier]

The arbitration hearing transcript makes for some interesting reading.

The NWA side has a huge problem, IMO. How do you argue for anything close to relative senority (let alone DOH...hahaha) when your airline has been shrinking (Dc-9's, 747-200's, loss of DHL contract, parking 757s) and the replacement planes aren't coming for a long time (late 2010 for the 787).

Meanwhile, Delta has added a bunch of airframes in the last few years (777's, 757s and 737s) and continues to expand with solid orders (of planes that have actually flown) in the near term.

My guess is that the best deal that the NWA pilots will see in the integration is/was back at the negotiating table. Unfortunately, that offer is long gone....

Now it's up to their lawyers to argue an impossible case.

And a teary eyed NWA pilot on a video talking about his dream of flying a 747 is not a good start....



Abe

Also consider that DAL has worse financial numbers than NWA according to yesterdays transcript.

Many failed airlines in the past were adding airframes at a time when they should have been conserving cash instead of adding expensive aircraft leases.

Consider the ratios of cash divided by the revenues mentioned in the opening remarks. DAL had a ratio of 13 while NWA was over 23, being only behind SWA the airline profit leader.