Disgruntled furloughed Midwest pilot accuses "regional pilots" being inferior airmen

erikgigem

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2006
Posts
101
Total Time
5000
Disgruntled furloughed Midwest pilot accuses "regional pilots" being inferior airmen

SOURCE: Milwaukee-Wisconsin Journal Sentinel
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/39999982.html

Lessons to be learned about flying experience

An examination of recent events in the aviation industry begs the question "why?" Let's examine the two most recent airline disasters that had entirely different outcomes, US1549 and CO3407. It might be a prudent consideration before the Milwaukee traveling public books its next airline ticket.

One of the nasty little secrets that the airline companies don't want the traveling public to know is that although the ticket was sold as a Continental Airlines flight, the actual company doing the flying was Colgan Airways of Manassas, Va. Airline companies really hate paying experienced airline pilot salaries and would rather subcontract flying out to the lowest bidder - as opposed to paying their own employees - as a cost-savings measure.

Of course, the results are quite predictable when the combined flying experience aboard most mainline air carriers is greater than the combined ages of those flying at regional air carriers. US 1549 piloted by Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger that ditched into the Hudson River had a much different outcome than did Continental 3407, where it would appear that pilot error might be to blame.

Experienced airline crews don't get paid because of the days when it's sunny and everything is going well. We get paid to ensure everyone entrusted to our care during flight goes home alive at the end of the day, regardless of the circumstances.

As a furloughed airline pilot from Midwest Airlines with nearly 25 years and 15,000 hours of flying experience, I expect history to repeat itself until the traveling public stops falling for the bait-and-switch tactics the airline industry employs in the name of cost savings.

Capt. Scott B. Kaley

Hilton Head, S.C.
 

CX880

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Posts
2,861
Total Time
1898
SOURCE: Milwaukee-Wisconsin Journal Sentinel
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/39999982.html

Lessons to be learned about flying experience

An examination of recent events in the aviation industry begs the question "why?" Let's examine the two most recent airline disasters that had entirely different outcomes, US1549 and CO3407. It might be a prudent consideration before the Milwaukee traveling public books its next airline ticket.

One of the nasty little secrets that the airline companies don't want the traveling public to know is that although the ticket was sold as a Continental Airlines flight, the actual company doing the flying was Colgan Airways of Manassas, Va. Airline companies really hate paying experienced airline pilot salaries and would rather subcontract flying out to the lowest bidder - as opposed to paying their own employees - as a cost-savings measure.

Of course, the results are quite predictable when the combined flying experience aboard most mainline air carriers is greater than the combined ages of those flying at regional air carriers. US 1549 piloted by Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger that ditched into the Hudson River had a much different outcome than did Continental 3407, where it would appear that pilot error might be to blame.

Experienced airline crews don't get paid because of the days when it's sunny and everything is going well. We get paid to ensure everyone entrusted to our care during flight goes home alive at the end of the day, regardless of the circumstances.

As a furloughed airline pilot from Midwest Airlines with nearly 25 years and 15,000 hours of flying experience, I expect history to repeat itself until the traveling public stops falling for the bait-and-switch tactics the airline industry employs in the name of cost savings.

Capt. Scott B. Kaley

Hilton Head, S.C.
this is sick. What are you implying CAptain? Because there is no proof, just rambling. Are you saying that the pilot crashed that Colgan plane?
 
Last edited:

imacdog

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Posts
4,196
Total Time
5000
I guess if the pinnacle of my career was being furloughed from flying a DC-9 I'd be pretty disgruntled too. I remember reading lots of outlandish letters and articles after the Comair crash a few years ago as well. What can you do really.
 

AirBill

PC LOAD LETTER
Joined
Sep 12, 2003
Posts
188
Total Time
None
By that standard, guess this proves Midwest is unsafe:

Midwest Express Airlines Flight 105 a Douglas DC-9-14 crashed just after takeoff on September 6, 1985 from General Mitchell Airport, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA, en route to Hartsfield International in Atlanta. The aircraft was destroyed by impact forces and the post-crash fire. The pilot, the first officer, both flight attendants, and all 27 passengers were fatally injured.
The Safety Board evaluated the performance characteristics of the DC-9-14 airplane following an abrupt loss of power from the right engine in the takeoff phase of flight and found the airplane to be docile, easily controllable, and requiring no unusual pilot skills or strength. Therefore, the Safety Board examined those factors which might have caused the pilots to lose control, including the possibility that fragments of the right engine separated with sufficient energy and trajectory to cause critical damage to the airplane's flight control system; the possibility of control system malfunction, which could have rendered the airplane uncontrollable; and the possibility of inappropriate flightcrew response to the emergency.
The cause was determined to be a pilot error in handling the aircraft after the right engine suffered a catastrophic failure. The introduction of incorrect rudder pedal forces about 4 to 5 seconds after the right engine failure, followed by aft control column forces, allowed the airplane to stall at a high airspeed, which led to loss of control of the aircraft and its subsequent crash.
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1987/AAR8701.htm
 

Jar Jar

I spake!
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Posts
536
Total Time
999999
This piece would have been more appropriate if he wrote it after the NTSB concluded that pilot error and lack of experience in the Dash was the cause of 3407.

If that was the case - which it may or may not be (none of us know) then he would have a soapbox to stand on.
 

siucavflight

Back from the forsaken
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Posts
3,512
Total Time
5000
To me as horrible as it may be to say, he has a point.
 

SBD

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Posts
379
Total Time
Y2K
So should we all head down to Hilton Head and tea bag this summa of a bich?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Posts
4,872
Total Time
4
Why would anyone be offended by this if it wasn't true?

I'm not offended.
 

DoinTime

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2001
Posts
2,523
Total Time
6000+

OUPilot01

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Posts
52
Total Time
4000
I am not offended either and if he waited another year for the ntsb report, it would be out of the public's mind. Plus the way I read the article he is not disrespecting the colgan pilots just airline management tactics in general.
 

GOULET!

Oh look..a bighorn!
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Posts
464
Total Time
Ream
The result of the Colgan crash would have been the same if "Sully" were at the controls.
 

zasca

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Posts
539
Total Time
12:54
This guy probably commuted on Piedmont or ASA to get to HHH. Wonder if he thinks the same about us every time he was sitting in the back...
 

ASA_Aviator

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Posts
1,136
Total Time
Enough
The result of the Colgan crash would have been the same if "Sully" were at the controls.
You think? I thought the FDR said that the CA stalled/aggravated the stall instead of recovering properly.

I'm not flaming here, but just asking. I was under that impression. If that's not correct, please let me know.
 

SLUF4

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Posts
1,122
Total Time
7000
People that aren't in aviation usually are the ones harping on experience and how gray hair is the measure of a pilot. How do they propose that we gather experience without flying? Do we all just start training at 40 and drop into the captain seat with our full head of gray hair? I get tired of the looks I get being a captain and hearing some of the stupid remarks passengers make.
 

kf4amu

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
3,074
Total Time
250
This guy probably commuted on Piedmont or ASA to get to HHH. Wonder if he thinks the same about us every time he was sitting in the back...
I think most people in the industry are aware Piedmont doesnt move anywhere...including the pilots. He probably knows our Captains (and some FOs) have more experience than anyone he flies with.
 

kf4amu

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
3,074
Total Time
250
I get tired of the looks I get being a captain and hearing some of the stupid remarks passengers make.
Last Capt I flew with has 18k hours. A pax asked our FA if "we knew how to fly har har har!".

Not appreciated.
 

ePilot22

BuyTheTicket~TakeTheRide
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Posts
903
Total Time
nfinit
SOURCE: Milwaukee-Wisconsin Journal Sentinel
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/39999982.html

Lessons to be learned about flying experience

An examination of recent events in the aviation industry begs the question "why?" Let's examine the two most recent airline disasters that had entirely different outcomes, US1549 and CO3407. It might be a prudent consideration before the Milwaukee traveling public books its next airline ticket.

One of the nasty little secrets that the airline companies don't want the traveling public to know is that although the ticket was sold as a Continental Airlines flight, the actual company doing the flying was Colgan Airways of Manassas, Va. Airline companies really hate paying experienced airline pilot salaries and would rather subcontract flying out to the lowest bidder - as opposed to paying their own employees - as a cost-savings measure.

Of course, the results are quite predictable when the combined flying experience aboard most mainline air carriers is greater than the combined ages of those flying at regional air carriers. US 1549 piloted by Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger that ditched into the Hudson River had a much different outcome than did Continental 3407, where it would appear that pilot error might be to blame.

Experienced airline crews don't get paid because of the days when it's sunny and everything is going well. We get paid to ensure everyone entrusted to our care during flight goes home alive at the end of the day, regardless of the circumstances.

As a furloughed airline pilot from Midwest Airlines with nearly 25 years and 15,000 hours of flying experience, I expect history to repeat itself until the traveling public stops falling for the bait-and-switch tactics the airline industry employs in the name of cost savings.

Capt. Snott B. Kaley

Hilton Head, S.C.

First, Major Airlines subcontract not because they hate to pay pilots, but because of the cost associated with the entire flight. There is no sense in flying 49 people on a 737 from New York to Buffalo, no profit will be made. Snott Kaley you're an idiot!

Second, Sully ditched a plane in day VMC conditions from 3000' AGL, with full knowledge of the problem and no icing. Colgan 3407 went down at NIGHT, IMC blowing snow, ice and from about 1500' AGL. There can be NO comparison between the two. Two different aircraft (the airbus is way more automated!), two different times of day and type of weather. Again Snott Kaley you're an idiot!!

Third, of course we know that every 25 year pilot with 15,000 hours has never crashed a plane and never will. And I'm sure Snott Kaley was born with 25 years experience and 15,000 hours. Snott Kaley you're still an idiot!!!

This guy has no point. His argument is flawed and really makes no sense. He should be directing his energy towards Midwest management instead of the regional pilot group. I'd be laughing at this article if the public was actually educated enough to see through this garbage!







eP.
 

SLUF4

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Posts
1,122
Total Time
7000
Yeah; I get it all the time..."did your mom let you fly today?" stupid stuff like that. Funny thing is, none of them get off the plane so I guess they just think they're comedians.
 

kf4amu

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Posts
3,074
Total Time
250
First, Major Airlines subcontract not because they hate to pay pilots, but because of the cost associated with the entire flight. There is no sense in flying 49 people on a 737 from New York to Buffalo, no profit will be made.
There no secret that regionals are flying mainline size jets on former mainline routes for regional pay.

Yes, blame it on mainline pilots giving up scope, but the fact remains, there is a pilot group willing to fly mainline size jets on mainline routes for drastically lower pay than in the past. For management, it makes great business sense.
 
Top