Discussion with the V.P @ Skywest. ASA lookout

[Ineedabrew]

"From our discussion with .............., VP Planning, the Company has not yet signed an agreement for flying the 12 aircraft being pulled from the Midwest System. The Company has been pursuing several ideas including pro-rate with current partners and other more creative options.

For Delta in the fall our 700-900 flying should be fairly consistent. For the 200s, we currently have 49 aircraft in the SLC system. The initial outlook was that we would only be flying 40 in SLC in September. After some negotiation, it appears that we will have the opportunity to fly approx seven 200s out of the ATL and CVG regions, flowing crews out of the current domiciles, keeping 38-39 in SLC. Some of that eastern flying will be pulled back into SLC in November and beyond. So for a few months you may see SLC and other crews flowing east on extended trips. These plans are tentative and subject to change."


Looks like DAL's not going to be cutting our flying all that much this fall thanks in part to Mgmnt's creative abilities.

But ASA crews will have a little more to complain about with SKW securing some at-risk CR2 flying for September and October out of ATL and CVG. I'm puzzled why ASA Mgmnt hasn't been more proactive in pursuing "pro-rate flying and other more creative options" for ASA aircraft and crews.

 

[crj567]

Because ASA mgmt IS SKYW mgmt.....

-We all know who will get looked after first!

 

[ace6453]

"From our discussion with .............., VP Planning, the Company has not yet signed an agreement for flying the 12 aircraft being pulled from the Midwest System. The Company has been pursuing several ideas including pro-rate with current partners and other more creative options.

For Delta in the fall our 700-900 flying should be fairly consistent. For the 200s, we currently have 49 aircraft in the SLC system. The initial outlook was that we would only be flying 40 in SLC in September. After some negotiation, it appears that we will have the opportunity to fly approx seven 200s out of the ATL and CVG regions, flowing crews out of the current domiciles, keeping 38-39 in SLC. Some of that eastern flying will be pulled back into SLC in November and beyond. So for a few months you may see SLC and other crews flowing east on extended trips. These plans are tentative and subject to change."


Looks like DAL's not going to be cutting our flying all that much this fall thanks in part to Mgmnt's creative abilities.

But ASA crews will have a little more to complain about with SKW securing some at-risk CR2 flying for September and October out of ATL and CVG. I'm puzzled why ASA Mgmnt hasn't been more proactive in pursuing "pro-rate flying and other more creative options" for ASA aircraft and crews.

Jerry tells Brad what to do. I'm sure after all of skyw's planes are placed, then and only then will they begin to place asa planes.

 

[Flybywire44]

Funny you mention that. ASA management mentioned that ASA would be flowing crews through SLC on extended trips.

Truth be told, they have to take care of Skywest first. Otherwise Skywest would be more inclined to go union if they did not have the satisfaction of doing better than ASA. We shoulda pushed harder for the Union at Skywest! Ouch.

 

[enuffalready]

I know it will NEVER happen becuase the ASA guys will never do it. But if we dont push for one list now, we are screwed in the long run. If we dont threaten with a huge slow down or walk out and force management to merge the list of asa and skywest we will never, and i repeat never, get the growth and expansion again. Even if we do get one piece of expansion it will be because skywest already got the other 4.

If you are junior and ever want to upgrade you had better wake up. If you are senior and, like me, a 'lifer' you had better wake up as ASA in its present form will NOT exist in 10 years.

 

[Tarzan]

I know it will NEVER happen becuase the ASA guys will never do it. But if we dont push for one list now, we are screwed in the long run. If we dont threaten with a huge slow down or walk out and force management to merge the list of asa and skywest we will never, and i repeat never, get the growth and expansion again. Even if we do get one piece of expansion it will be because skywest already got the other 4.

If you are junior and ever want to upgrade you had better wake up. If you are senior and, like me, a 'lifer' you had better wake up as ASA in its present form will NOT exist in 10 years.

Delta does not exist in the present form that it did ten years ago. I'll take one list if means kicking ALPA off the property. I am not to big on the idea of not having representation but I am not a huge fan ALPA either. With what SW has demonstrated in the past is that an overwhelmingly number of their pilots don't feel the need for a union. I'd run the risk to put the two together.

 

[USCtrojan]

Funny you mention that. ASA management mentioned that ASA would be flowing crews through SLC on extended trips.

Truth be told, they have to take care of Skywest first. Otherwise Skywest would be more inclined to go union if they did not have the satisfaction of doing better than ASA. We shoulda pushed harder for the Union at Skywest! Ouch.

When did ASA Mgmt. say this? I know there was a rumor last year that ASA would flow through the SLC system, but nothing concrete.

Trojan

 

[Plainsman]

How would we begin to go one list. ALPA isn't going to do it. The company doesn't seem to want it either. I believe, Skywest pilots wouldn't want it since we would be a little senior. So is it even an option? What are our options? I would take PBS with one list! I like what ALPA has done for us in the past, but they are looking like a flat tire lately. Going one list would save the company money and stop the whipsaw when future contracts come up. One list says I!

 

[enuffalready]

well, it is not in the interest of the company nor the interest of skywest pilots to one list.

We are the only ones with anything to lose with status quo. Our only chance it to demand it or walk out. People dont realize that if we dont that we will be shrunk to nothing or gone altogether.

When American tried a slow down, they got a huge fine to APA. The difference is, if ALPA gets a HUGE fine, then who cares? This is our only leverage.

people, this is a HUGE deal. look at Comair... do you want to be them in 3, 5, 7 years from now??

Status Quo---if you are junior, you will never upgrade, if you are super senior and want retire at ASA, it wont be here in 10 years. Do you wanna be 47 or 57 with no place to go? We are all in this together... if we wait too long, it wont matter

 

[JoeMerchant]

We should have pushed for it in the last negotiations....but the majority wanted pay and workrules instead....There is an election coming up, and the current group won't make this a priority.

The price will be higher now then it would have been during the last contract negotiations....Doesn't matter how much you like ALPA, or love leading pay and workrules, if you don't have a job anymore....

 

[SLUF4]

seems like it would be a complex integration

 

[No Delay]

Well, the company really wants PBS....

How much would it cost the company to merge the list? I don't want PBS...but that may be the only card we hold!

 

[Plainsman]

This will be more about job keeping than work rules and pay at least until the economy turns. ALPA will not represent the pilots in doing this. Who cares what happened last contract, the game has changed. Anyone have anything constructive on how to press on into the future with the idea of one list or do we just bitch about the last contract?

 

[damnflyboy]

I think Brad should ask his mustache what we should do.

 

[Papa Woody]

Brad is CEO like Obama is President.

Puppet-Heads.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

United plunging into worse financial trouble is going to be the catalyst to merging the list. If Skywest's UAL flying were to look particularly bad, they'll merge the two to save as many of the senior Skywest people. Skywest voted out ALPA but an independent stand alone union is still viable.

ASA will continue to decline if it doesn't get the bottom line in order. Any way to run a more efficient operation is going to help, but at some point labor costs are going to be addressed. Are the ASA pilots really going to let its leadership go for "industry leading" pay scales and work rules?

 

[USCtrojan]

We should have pushed for it in the last negotiations....but the majority wanted pay and workrules instead....There is an election coming up, and the current group won't make this a priority.

The price will be higher now then it would have been during the last contract negotiations....Doesn't matter how much you like ALPA, or love leading pay and workrules, if you don't have a job anymore....

A higher price is nothing compared to the unemployment line. Hopefully, more people can grasp the idea of unity vs. stand alone. United is in the hurt locker, their liquidity as soon as this fall is looking quite bleak.

Trojan

 

[jeroom]

in 10 years, ASA will be flying CRJ9000. 900 coach seats, 2 F/As.

 

[goahead]

To the morons that think slowing down, burning this place down, showing the man who's boss, this will not work remember our 900's that we didn't get. You need to express you feelings to our union and hold them accountable for our demands. Negativity at ASA will no longer work it will just accelerate our demise.

 

[79%N1]

If United fails, that is the end of ASA. Skywest will be hardly affected.

 

[Erlanger]

If United fails, that is the end of ASA. Skywest will be hardly affected.

So you're saying that Skywest will take over the ASA flying to keep its pilots and flight attendants employed and layoff all the ASA pilots? But Skywest will need the other employees at ASA. You think morale with those employees will be good with Skywest crews moving into ATL at the expense of ASA crews?

Would it be legal to do? For sure ALPA would put up a flight.

How much notice does Skywest have to give the ASA crews that they're all being let go? 60 days or somewhere around that? The place would be burned to the ground before Skywest crews moved in. How do you think Skywest would go about pulling this off?

 

[goahead]

Would it be legal to do? For sure ALPA would put up a flight.

The only reason ALPA would put up a fight is if was because they were about to lose dues, not for our own well being

 

[LazyLightnin']

So you're saying that Skywest will take over the ASA flying to keep its pilots and flight attendants employed and layoff all the ASA pilots? But Skywest will need the other employees at ASA. You think morale with those employees will be good with Skywest crews moving into ATL at the expense of ASA crews?

Would it be legal to do? For sure ALPA would put up a flight.

How much notice does Skywest have to give the ASA crews that they're all being let go? 60 days or somewhere around that? The place would be burned to the ground before Skywest crews moved in. How do you think Skywest would go about pulling this off?

It's happening as we speak, and I see no fires. We furlough and ask people to leave all while Skywest receives more flying.

 

[enuffalready]

To the morons that think slowing down, burning this place down, showing the man who's boss, this will not work remember our 900's that we didn't get. You need to express you feelings to our union and hold them accountable for our demands. Negativity at ASA will no longer work it will just accelerate our demise.

you are not listening. I am not interested in hearing what alpa has to say about it. Alpa cannot legally do anything until next negotiation and once that starts it'll be 4 years until its complete. I am talking about right now. The little leverage we have is becoming less and less with each furlough and each new 70 and 76 seater at skywest. COmair is a shell of what is used to be and as of right now SKywest could not afford to have parked ASA aircraft. I hope I am wrong but i absolutely believe that if we sit back a la comair we will suffer the same fate. alpa is impotent in this becuase they have no legal grounds to do anything accept protest stenuously. But since this is not the soviet union, we cant et thrown in jail for not coming to work and if we all just stopped coming to work until there was one list this would be done in 24 hours.

 

[Tarzan]

you are not listening. I am not interested in hearing what alpa has to say about it. Alpa cannot legally do anything until next negotiation and once that starts it'll be 4 years until its complete. I am talking about right now. The little leverage we have is becoming less and less with each furlough and each new 70 and 76 seater at skywest. COmair is a shell of what is used to be and as of right now SKywest could not afford to have parked ASA aircraft. I hope I am wrong but i absolutely believe that if we sit back a la comair we will suffer the same fate. alpa is impotent in this becuase they have no legal grounds to do anything accept protest stenuously. But since this is not the soviet union, we cant et thrown in jail for not coming to work and if we all just stopped coming to work until there was one list this would be done in 24 hours.

So do we decertify? If so, who's going to run with that ball?

 

[FORESTGUMP]

how about this; Skywest transfers A/C from ASA to Skywest and offers ASA crews comperable seniortiy to what they hold now at ASA.

I'm first in line. Good ridence ALPA

 

[Nevets]

I'll take one list if means kicking ALPA off the property. I am not to big on the idea of not having representation but I am not a huge fan ALPA either. With what SW has demonstrated in the past is that an overwhelmingly number of their pilots don't feel the need for a union. I'd run the risk to put the two together.

What dont you like about ALPA?

Skywest voted out ALPA but an independent stand alone union is still viable.

One of the three union drives was an independent, if I understand correctly. They voted that down as well.

So you're saying that Skywest will take over the ASA flying to keep its pilots and flight attendants employed and layoff all the ASA pilots? But Skywest will need the other employees at ASA. You think morale with those employees will be good with Skywest crews moving into ATL at the expense of ASA crews?

Would it be legal to do? For sure ALPA would put up a flight.

How much notice does Skywest have to give the ASA crews that they're all being let go? 60 days or somewhere around that? The place would be burned to the ground before Skywest crews moved in. How do you think Skywest would go about pulling this off?

They wouldnt do it in 60 days. They would start by having skw crews do some ATL flying and slowly but subtly increase it. In other words, put in the replacements before pulling the plug on ASA. Thats assuming that is what they want to do to begin with.

how about this; Skywest transfers A/C from ASA to Skywest and offers ASA crews comperable seniortiy to what they hold now at ASA.

I'm first in line. Good ridence ALPA

Thanks to ALPA, they negotiated that very language for you already. Its in your contract.

 

[Gulf-front]

Damn..... Some of you guys need to pick up that little white & Blue book and read the damn thing! AKA YOUR CONTRACT!
1. NO MORE FURLOUGHS. (If your name is in the book) (only AD or act of war)
2. Transfer of aircraft is covered. (We go with the planes in simple terms)

If you guys have heartburn with ALPA. Get involved and change it. Run for office. Hell, just vote next time!
Stop all the hand ringing, because we furloughed.
Stop all this "I rather not have a union at all crap"! Your a managers wet dream. You think job security is scary now, wait until you have one without a contract! I've had both.
If evil is afoot, we will stop it together! WITH A UNION!

Turn off the Glenn Beck show for a while, its making you guys paranoid.

 

[enuffalready]

So do we decertify? If so, who's going to run with that ball?

I am not against alpa at all. They are great for hotel grievences and day to day operations but alpa is bound by the RLA. As an employee, we are not. They can fine ALPA, just like they did APA, but thats about it. They can't throw you in jail for not coming to work. They can ultimatly fire you yes, but lets be honest. Id rather fight now, while we have leverage than let ASA become comair.

As far as the contract, no furlough clause and transfer of jets, etc. They don't have to trasfer jets. All they have to do it put new ones at skywest and return ours to a vendor. Every RFP will go to the skywest guys. Sure we may get a few 90's to make everyone happy but for every 90 we get,we will lose 2 50's, and skywest will get 5 90's. Do you remember after the last round of BK's when the judge allowed the pensions of US AIR guys to be raided( once untouchable), only to be replaced with $.20 cents on the dollar of the PBGC that they would have any trouble with a contract of a pissant little company like ASA and a furlough or transfer clause?? seriously?

guys.. wake up. Skywest and jerry are clearly one of the players, we either one list or we skrink and die.

This time around we are all in this together. If you are senior and plan on making ASA your career, think again. You could be an unemployed airline pilot at 48 or 50 years or older. or is you are junior and want to move on to the big iron... you are never gonna upgrade here unless we fight for onelist

 

[FORESTGUMP]

What dont you like about ALPA?



Thanks to ALPA, they negotiated that very language for you already. Its in your contract.

don't like anything about alpa

i know its in the contract. thats why i said it silly. ain't it great? alpa finally does something right and it could lead to us finally getting ride of that bunch of extortionists